Posted by lmk/wi on 2/4/05 5:56am
Msg #19401
Thankx to All!!
Thanx for all the support and advice. I have made myself up a little checklist for before and during the appointment so I think that will help tremendously. I can see communication to the borrowers and company that hired me is crucial and that happens to be one of my highpoints, because I hate making a mistake because there was a miscommunication. I'm going to take along my notary state brochure, I have extra acknowledgements and jurats and I have decided I am going to drink a cup of calming tea beforehand, so my nerves dont jump out of my skin. I was a waitress and bartender for many years so handling different personalities is something I'm familiar with. All in all, I'm looking forward to when its over so I can say I did my first one. One question: I was going to let the borrowers lead me in a direction if need be, but try to give them their oath in the beginning of the signing. Then tell them if they have a question on one of the docs that needs such we will call the lender and redo the oath if necessary. Im sure everybody has their own way of doing this, but it seems to be an efficient way of doing it and at the same time professional. Any comments?
| Reply by Charm_AL on 2/4/05 8:22am
Msg #19409
Tea you say?
First of all I recommend 'Celestial Seasonings' golden honey darjeeling - YUM, it's a black tea and very tasty without sugar or cream!
Secondly, I'd suggest to you not to put too much thinking in beforehand...in other words you can really stress yourself out by overthinking, then overcompensating. Study the docs and instructions...
Give the oath, and start with the Hud and after they sign, if they ask anything you can't answer legally, at that point you would either call the LO or I prefer to let them take notes so that at the end they can get their questions answered...remind them of the 3 day right to cancel if that is applicable to this loan. If it's a new purchase, I would advise them to write down any questions and we call the LO before I leave. I have been successful getting thru the appointment when I start off by introducing myself and asking/stating ...I believe the Lender has gone over everything with you and your pretty familiar with your loan? In every case I've gotten a yes or nod. There was only one case that the wife scrutinized every word...and the husband didn't read a thing. She was intimidating to say the least - She asked me a hundred questions...some I could answer by telling her what the document was, some I couldn't. At that point I said here, let's write down your concerns and we'll address them by calling your LO, but keep in mind you have three days to go over this with a fine tooth comb...at that point she said no, nevermind and signed. At the end of the appointment I spent another 15 minutes listening to her life story 
My advice is to know your documents, because some will be confused or not know what they are signing....just study the docs and most importantly read line by line your instructions, every ss is different but they will spell it all out for you in your instructions...that is what you need at the signing, and check off each and every one as you complete them...
Good Luck -
| Reply by Charm_AL on 2/4/05 8:29am
Msg #19411
You're in Stevens Point? One of my favorite attractions in the world is the House on the Rock!!! Used to stop there after a trip with the shortys to Wis Dells
| Reply by Stephanie/CA on 2/4/05 12:58pm
Msg #19425
1.) You speak of drinking calming tea beforehand....I think it's best not to be to calm; one needs to be alert and "on top of things" during a signing, if you are able to do that after drinking calming tea, more power to you.
2.) I was going to let the borrowers lead me in a direction if need be, but try to give them their oath in the beginning of the signing....By accepting an assignment to handle the execution of loan documents puts the Signing Agent in the driver's seat. I personally feel it is up to us to lead the borrowers through the signing.
I cannot see giving an oath at the beginning of the signing.
As I notarize a document that requires an oath or affirmation, I give the oath at the time of execution of the document; then I can have them swear or affirm to the contents of that particular document.
If there are three (3) documents that require an oath/affirmation, then I conduct that part of the signing three (3) times.
Does anyone here give the oath at the beginning of the signing?????
| Reply by BrendaTX on 2/4/05 10:44pm
Msg #19476
Stephanie...
>>>>Does anyone here give the oath at the beginning of the signing?????<<<<
Stephanie:
I have wrestled with this question and have based my decision to do as I do on both
(1) attending MANY Texas title company closings where I am not the notary/closer and
(2) the redundancy of requesting the oath be taken given the list I wrote below.
This is a list of the commonly used documents that require notarizations in a refi. Some may seem reptitive because they are. One lender/title company requires 1) Signature Affidavit and 2) Legal Name Affidavit and 3) Signature and Name Affidavit.
Survey Affidavit
Owner's Affidavit
Owner-Seller Affidavit
AKA Affidavits may be supplied in blank, just in case.
Affidavit of No Debts and Liens
Affidavit of Release of Liability
Affidavit of Reasonable Costs
Compliance Agreement (Sometimes notarized)
Affidavit of Homestead
Mr's Marital Status Affidavit
Mrs.'s Marital Status Affidavit
Signature Affidavit
Name Affidavit
Signature and Name Affidavit
Deed of Trust
Affidavit of No Inspection
Borrower's Affidavit
Sometimes an Identification Letter with a jurat...And, sometimes even a "________ Affidavit" to swear that they are the ones who signed the foregoing (which may be called several different things, or an affidavit which says they did not sign any documents which contained ________'s).
Sometimes a lender will combine some of these into one, but Texas title companies are hard-headed and will not accept this, so add the "Big Combo Affidavit" into the stack of documents.
(A Beneficial Finance HELOC requires ten to twelve notarial acts here. An Ameriquest HELOC seems to use every one of the Affidavits above and be as long as 204 pages in my experience.)
So, no, I don't go through the oath/acknowledgement each time. And, I better darn sure have a journal with the above-mentioned items listed ready to check off and ready to sign before I get there because that in and of itself is laborious to give the above, plus the fact that each notarial act which "charges" property may require nine points of information recorded about it.
Someone might want to argue with my procedures, but in Texas, the oaths alone will take a significant amount of time. And, I believe it would make those I am serving quite frustrated if I had the hands raised at each document.
So,
-I go through a routine of oath at the beginning
-And, again where there are affidavits involving identity
-And, when we get to the DOT, we pregnantly pause for the proper acknowledgment
-And at the end, I ask them to re-affirm that "you signed these documents with truthfulness and/or as appropriate you acknowledge that you signed the same" while they sign the journal listing the documents / type of act....etc.
And, I'll guarantee you that I am doing a more thorough job as a notary than ANY title company closing which I have attended.
I'll spare you the details of other varieties docs needing notarizations as required on Home Improvements and the double duty on Reverse Mortgage signings.
-----
Could someone please hand the DJ a couple of bucks and ask him to play "I work hard for my money!" by Donna Summer for Charlotte, Hugh, me and the rest of the Texas Notary Posse Members?
| Reply by BrendaTX on 2/4/05 10:47pm
Msg #19477
Re: Stephanie...Ooops.
"SHE" Works Hard for her Money.
| Reply by Charlotte Tx on 2/5/05 11:31pm
Msg #19542
Re: Stephanie...
Boy oh boy!! Brenda you sure can make me feel tired, and I was just reading what we have to get notarized down here in Texas. Ya know, when you get used to doing it, it doesn't really seem like that much work. I guess because I like it. Oh well the DJ is paid for in advance!!
| Reply by BrendaTX on 2/6/05 1:01am
Msg #19546
"Down here in Tx" (Charlotte)
Yep. I used to wonder why Hugh and I were the only ones who seemed to have problems getting through a signing in less than an hour. Finally, after getting a little experience and seeing the other state's packages, I realized we are doing some different things here than other states.
The extras are because there are so many title company docs. And, as you know, when we bid our jobs, we have to realize that we are likely to receive 17-40 pages of those via fax/email in addition to the packages they overnight us.
| Reply by HisHughness on 2/5/05 12:02am
Msg #19479
Imk/WI asks about the procedure for swearing borrowers:
***One question: I was going to let the borrowers lead me in a direction if need be, but try to give them their oath in the beginning of the signing.***
We have had similar discussions on this forum before. In my view, it is pointless and an imposition on the borrowers to require them to take multiple oaths.
If you are to present evidence in a judicial proceeding, you will be sworn in when you first present yourself for testimony. Thereafter, if you have to return to the stand in that same proceeding, whether it be the same day, the next week, the next month, or (if it is Microsoft litigating, several years later), you will simply be reminded that you are still under oath and will proceed to testify.
A loan closing is quite analagous to a judicial proceeding in that respect. It is one transaction consisting of many different steps, all aimed at achieving one purpose: Transfer property, fund the purchase of property, encumber property, whatever. Swear the borrowers at the start, tell them that oath applies to the entire proceeding, and get on with it so you can go home and watch reruns of West Wing -- unless, of course, you are an aging, libidinous lawyer with an overactive imagination, in which case you will go home, lay down, and see images of Anna Nicole Smith in the dust on the twirling fan blades. That is, you will see visions of Anna Nicole if your divorce is going well. If not, you may see images of Our Lady of Lourdes and will likely begin exhibiting stigmata.
I'd like to hear what the other lawyers on the forum consider appropriate for swearing borrowers -- and also what they think about these holes in my hands and feet
| Reply by BrendaTX on 2/5/05 9:23am
Msg #19496
Oaths, etc.
>>I'd like to hear what the other lawyers on the forum consider appropriate for swearing borrowers <<
I am not a lawyer, but I have been hoping to land a part playing one on tv.
>>>and also what they think about these holes in my hands and feet<<<
Though these words are a joke to you, since we are friends you know me well enough to know that they are very meaningful to me. The "visual" of the same in jest makes me sad. I realize you probably don't see the harm in the fun of it, and you have every right to continue to joke about it because we have freedom of speech in this awesome USA. My contention is that even though I despise what Adolph Hitler stood for, I could not joke about his death to anyone that cared about him.
Lot's of us care about a man named Jesus Christ. Please don't make reference to His death in jest.
| Reply by BrendaTX on 2/5/05 9:25am
Msg #19497
Spelling Police: Here's another chance at...
getting me again.
Lot's= Lots
| Reply by HisHughness on 2/5/05 9:43am
Msg #19500
Re: Oaths, etc.
Brenda complained:
***Lot's of us care about a man named Jesus Christ. Please don't make reference to His death in jest.***
I'm not prepared to let one religious community co-opt for its purposes all references to a particularly gruesome form of death. Thousands of people other than Jesus of Nazareth were subjected to crucifiction. Every single one of them exhibited stigmata.
| Reply by BrendaTX on 2/5/05 10:32am
Msg #19504
Re: Oaths, etc.
Glad to be educated. You are truly an asset to the rest of us.
However, maybe the other religious communities feel the same.
| Reply by Bob-CA on 2/5/05 4:08pm
Msg #19518
Re: Oaths, etc.
<<subjected to crucifiction. Every single one of them exhibited stigmata.>>
First name a few, just don't make statements.
Second, should we not learn how to spell crucifixion before we began our lectures? The famous one who is so critical of others lack of what he must consider "intelligence" just popped up its ugly head and bite the master.
| Reply by HisHughness on 2/5/05 4:49pm
Msg #19521
Re: Oaths, etc.
Bob-CA chided:
***First name a few, just don't make statements. ***
Crucifixion is a historical fact; it was the preferred method of execution for almost a millenium in some societies. Do you by any chance recall that there were >>three<< men on the hill that day? To quote just one authority:
"There appear to be a number of misconceptions regarding the Crucifixion of Jesus. Jesus was NOT the first nor the only person to be crucified. The Romans had used that method of execution for at least 70 years before Jesus was Crucified. In around 40 BC, in Rome, a historian recorded that 2,000 people were crucified in a single day, for the entertainment of Quintilius Varus! About 40 years after Jesus' Crucifixion, the Romans crucified around 500 per day in 70 AD."
Bob-CA further opines:
***Second, should we not learn how to spell crucifixion before we began our lectures? The famous one who is so critical of others lack of what he must consider "intelligence" just popped up its ugly head and bite the master. ***
Thanks for the critique. Editors need to be reminded occasionally that they are neither omniscient nor omnipotent. I plead guilty to posting in haste. Please note the first post, in which "crucifixion" was spelled appropriately, which, if it is necessary to be addressed at all, should dispose of any reservations you might have about my IQ. Please also note that neither in that post nor any other have I ever used the past tense "began" for the present tense "begin," nor have I ever used "bite" for "bit." I'll pass on commenting about the comma splice and your failure to employ the requisite quotation marks.
And finally, Bob-CA jibes:
***The famous one***
Notoriety never equates to fame. At my age, I suspect all I can ever aspire to now is infamy.
| Reply by Dennis D Broadbooks on 2/5/05 1:25pm
Msg #19513
How Oaths are Performed...
...are as individual as our personalities. As long as they're accomplished in some shape, manner, or form is what counts. Personally I treat every document with jurat wording as its own separate, individual judicial proceeding. Each one accomplishes its own purpose & that's why they're referred to as a Notarial "act". Each act stands on its own & in my opinion requires an oath for each. If there are 8 documents with jurat wording, there are 8 oath ceremonies in the signings I conduct. BTW, I don't consider multiple oath ceremonies an imposition on the borrowers either. If it deters one person in a thousand from making a false statement on a document, it's worth the extra effort in my estimation. After all that's the ultimate purpose we serve as Notaries...to deter fraud.
As for the "holes" in your hands & feet, Hugh...as long as you keep brushing up against our Lord & Savior in some fashion or another, you won't hear any complaints from me. I'll keep praying someday you'll finally hear & respond to the blessed message those holes represent.
| Reply by Ernest Adams on 2/5/05 9:39pm
Msg #19538
Stigmata, and an echo
The word "stigmata" refers not to real holes from a real crucifixion, but to "marks resembling the wounds of the crucified body of Christ" (Random House's Webster's College Dictionary).
I join Brenda in asking that we all show mutual respect for one another's belief systems, whether mainstream or otherwise.
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