Posted by Oldbie_CA on 1/19/05 4:43pm
Msg #17370

Astonished

I was attempting to collect on an invoice that is over 60 days with a Title Co. that usually pays me within 1 week. I called again today and the E.O. told me that the loan cancelled. I explained to her that because I cannot have an interest in whether or not the loan closes my fees are still owed. She said that I needed to invoice the borrower.

Maybe I shouldn't be astonished but this is the first time I ever had a very reputable title co. not pay me and then suggest I go after the borrower.

What would you guys do? TIA for your advice.

Reply by Roger/OH on 1/19/05 6:21pm
Msg #17382

This is an ongoing issue with a number of companies where the loan rescinds. We have no control or interest in what happens to the papers after we notarize them, which completes our service to the company that hired us. We are a fixed cost since nothing further can happen in the process without us. The appraiser's fee is not contingent on the loan being funded and neither should ours be! Ask them if they stiffed their appraiser - bet not! We are to paid for services rendered - period.

Reply by Becca/FL on 1/19/05 6:25pm
Msg #17383

Wow! I would not feel comfortable invoicing the borrower. I'm glad I've never been in this situation. Please let us all know what you decide to do.

Reply by HisHughness on 1/19/05 8:22pm
Msg #17397

You had no privity of contract with the borrower. Your contract was with the title company. It is the title company that should pay.

Reply by HisHughness on 1/19/05 8:22pm
Msg #17398

You had no privity of contract with the borrower. Your contract was with the title company. It is the title company that should pay.

Reply by MI_Notary on 1/19/05 7:12pm
Msg #17390

I don't believe I would go after the borrower. Especially since he/she/they did not contract the signing with you. However, check your confirmation and see if it says "rescind, no pay" and if it doesn't call them back and let them know that they confirmation didn't state it and therefore, you were not informed about the no pay policy and try to convince them they are responsible for paying since it was not disclosed. Another thing would be to ask them for proof that the loan canceled. Just a few ideas. Good luck.

Reply by Joseph on 1/19/05 7:35pm
Msg #17394

How about a follow up call to the borrower and to see if it really didnt close.
And in case it didnt told the borrower that such company didnt pay
you so they will never use their services in the future?


Joseph

Reply by Lori/CA on 1/19/05 7:54pm
Msg #17396

Oldbie,

When I accept a signing from a Title Company I know this is the risk. If the loan does not close, well I do not get paid. It was also my understanding that we are NOT allowed to bill the borrower. I usually can remember where I get this info but seeing that I have been real slow my brain is slipping. Please research a little before you bill them (if you choose to).

I look at it as, it is not usually Title's fault the loan cancels or recinds why would they financially be responsible. I have found most reasons are the loan officer quoted one thing and got to the signing and it was different! I think law should change to protect us seeing we can not work for free. And from schmucky (sorry if spelling is not correct)LO's

Sorry, really could ramble on forever but that would only bore and anger us all.

Lori

Reply by Ted_MI on 1/19/05 10:48pm
Msg #17412

Lori,

You may well be correct that it isn't usually the title company's fault if a loan cancels or rescinds. But they should be responsible. Now why? Because they were the ones that contracted with the signing agent. And the signing agent is entitled to get compensated on the basis of the legal principle called quantum meruit (in essence he or she did the work). Now might they (the title company) be entitled to go after the loan company to get reimbursed if the lender screwed up. Seems pretty equitable to me.

Reply by Lori/CA on 1/20/05 10:28am
Msg #17446

Ted,

Don't get me wrong I agree with what you state 100% from a business place. I am just stating this is not the norm unless you have a contract states if the loan does not close you are still paid. Based on results, what you have stated is not standard there are several exceptions such as SS not paying and the postings of others not being paid.

I wish our fee was collected at time of service (the apt.) as the appraisers or inspectors. We should be paid when we have vested our time. I did post about this prior but was shot at in a way I decided not to bring this back up. I know there is a way to protect us, but honestly I am not willing to do alone. I have not had any major issues with being paid as only one recinded this past year and I have never been stiffed by a SS either.

I know if all the wise one's on the board put their heads together we could change the way things are done.

Lori

Reply by Shane_IN on 1/19/05 10:49pm
Msg #17413

You are incorrect in this reasoning. If the loan doesn't fund, does certainly not mean, you shouldn't get paid. Unless you offer them a service contract that states that in writing. That is just absurd.

If I drive my car to the borrowers home, and they don't sign. I still have to pay the gas attendant for the gas I used.

You performed a service, you get paid. You may have to invoice the title company, or whoever you accepted the job from... but you are certainly entitled to be paid.

We are a service business.....if a service is performed, you get paid.

Reply by Lee/AR on 1/19/05 11:30pm
Msg #17420

The question is: What do WE do about this?

We've all heard 'if it doesn't fund, you don't get paid'; we all know Appraisers get paid--no matter what. This is simply a matter of 'policy'...change the policy by advising them that you expect to get paid for this, like an Appraiser...no matter what. Any other ideas? If we ALL insist, we stand a chance.

Reply by JanetK/CA on 1/21/05 3:34am
Msg #17570

Where's the NNA when you need them??

I also agree that we should be paid regardless. Just because it's customarily done, doesn't mean it's right. I think it's certainly at least the appearance of a conflict of interest if we get paid only based on a certain outcome.

However, changing something like this isn't going to happen easily. This is another area where there is a void in terms of an organization that truly represents the interests of the signing agent community. The folks at the NNA would sure earn lots of points in my book (and perhaps even my membership again...) if they at least tried to take on this issue. I doubt it will happen, though, since it seems to me that they are more concerned about their relationships with the big title & escrow companies and lenders. After all, the latter are the ones that benefit most from encouraging more and more people to become signing agents, no?

Maintaining the neutrality of a transaction is a critical notarial issue and I think we should all do whatever we can to raise awareness about this problem. Plus, I can't think of ANY other independent contractors that get paid or not for the service they provide based on what an independent third party does or doesn't do. Can any of you? The fact that it is totally outside of our control just doesn't make sense. Is this an unprecedented situation?? I'd be interested in any other thoughts on this....

Reply by Do It on 1/20/05 9:55am
Msg #17442

I guess I look at this a different way.
If the Company told you to go to the Borrower,
then call the Borrower up & tell them what you
were told (& who told you -> their name).
This more than likely will start a chain reaction.
We are ALL going to have to start standing up
for ourselves! If this is the way Companies
want to be, so be it.