Posted by Craig Mestel on 1/28/05 4:32pm
Msg #18630

Bankruptcy

Not to jump off the topic of everything we are about, but has anyone ever explored the world of Bankruptcy Processing from home? I saw the book and wasn't sure if it was another scam or not. Figured it could be something to do inbetween the millions of closings Im doing :(

Reply by Nicole_NCali on 1/28/05 4:37pm
Msg #18632

Re: Bankruptcy-book seems like snake oil -:)

The thing with processing bankruptcies is that the paperwork is intense. If you don't know about state or federal exemptions, homestead exemptions, you as a processor could potentially ruin someone's life. Simple chapter 7 no assets are easy, I have a friend who is a paralegal who do these all day in his sleep, but the chapter 7 no assets for business and chapter 13 can get tricky..

This book seems like another snake oil deal -

Reply by Craig Mestel on 1/28/05 4:40pm
Msg #18635

Re: Bankruptcy-book seems like snake oil -:)

I hear ya, but even if you are aware of guidlines and rules, etc. Is there that much of a demand for it? Even more important, does it pay? I assume its just like those "pay per survey" scams, a waste of time

Reply by mike/ca on 1/28/05 4:41pm
Msg #18636

Re: Bankruptcy-book seems like snake oil -:)

I agree with nicole_ncali, i too am a cert paralegal and bankruptcies can be extremely tricky.

Reply by Nicole_NCali on 1/28/05 5:07pm
Msg #18643

Re: Bankruptcy-book seems like snake oil -:)

There is a demand for bankruptcies but the issue is the exemptions and for the pro se filer ability to justify having these exemptions. Most of these people need to be represented by an attorney and at the least have their paperwork prepped by a paralegal. Here is an example of what can happen if the processors is not experienced.

ex. Person asks to have jewelry account discharged.

Trustee: well do you have any jewelry, it is not on your schedule so and so but you are requesting ot have 3k discharged from ABC jewelry corp.

Person says, huh, I thought I put that in my paperwork.

Trust me, you don't want to get into the world of bankruptcy, it can be a very scary black hole and will take up more of your time than signing loan documents.

Reply by Craig Mestel on 1/28/05 5:16pm
Msg #18644

Re: Bankruptcy-book seems like snake oil -:)

thanks, Ill take your word for it. Im spending enough time of these darn signings. Have a great weekend, oddly enough I have more closings to do this weekend than the whole week put together.

Reply by BrendaTX on 1/28/05 5:41pm
Msg #18648

The book is going to tell you how to basically become a contract legal assistant to bankruptcy attorneys who presents a turnkey price for the labor intensive job of dealing with the clients and doing the client intake.

VR's books tell people how to think like an entrepreneur. If you don't think along those lines, it will not be something you are interested in IMHO. With a legal background, you can see a lot of possibility outside of the BR business.

Without a legal background, you can still do it, but you also have to be willing to do a lot of learning about the overall picture of BR. I have not felt that energetic lately and my dad has some health problems that I am working around right now.

Reply by Ted_MI on 1/28/05 6:36pm
Msg #18657

Brenda,

My impression of what Victoria Ring is educating people about is basically being a bankruptcy forms processor. If the people who have read her book are involved with doing client intake and dealing directly with them from my perspective that is really fraught with risk (of upl), because the clients will have all sorts of questions I am sure that they will want answered.

Reply by BrendaTX on 1/28/05 8:00pm
Msg #18672

Ted: "...because the clients will have all sorts of questions I am sure that they will want answered."

Good point, Ted.

My opinion is that the correct answer to your concerns would be: "Unfortunately, I cannot answer your legal questions. It's my job to collect preliminary information for your attorney which willl create an accurate view of your financial status for him/her to review. Please make a note of that question to ask your attorney. Can I give you that number?"

Just like with NSA work, there are some questions you can answer and some you cannot. It takes a bit of common sense, respect for avoiding UPL, and experience to distinguish the two. It takes digging into the unlimited amount of educational tools we have at our fingertips to find answers. If I decide to do anything in this life to make money, I will take responsibility for the risk I put myself at and for assuring that I don't cross the wrong lines and won't consider it anyone else's fault if I screw up.

I think that's part of the problem with the books VR writes when people don't police themselves and "assume" that they can take anything in print at face value.

She hands people information and ideas they can use to profit if they do their own due dilligence and police themselves. Like I repeatedly say, people have to take responsibility for their actions and don't say "but the NotRotters said that's how to do it!"

If the Lord Jesus himself sat on my bed tomorrow morning and told me it was okay for me to do a practice that I had concerns about, I'd ask Him for citable sources to find the legal route for the same...and I feel sure that He'd resolve it for me.

Reply by sue on 1/29/05 10:06am
Msg #18730

my thoughts exactly. in my area, you meet with a lawyer FIRST for bankruptcy, divorce, whatever. He/she then turns you over to a paralegal who proceeds with the routine and basics of the paperwork, under the direction of the attorney. What attorney in his right mind would file a bankruptcy petition on info taken through a third party? In my area, unless you under the direct direction of an attorney you would be in HUGE trouble, especially if someone did this without the supervision of an attorney.

How in the world would the 'processer' know what info to gather other than what goes on the form - 'speaking' with the client it's really a discussion where all sorts of things come up that lead to further digging and questions. Many people see a lawyer regarding bankruptcy because their home is in foreclosure. What if the lawyer can negotiate a simple Forebearance Agreement instead of filing for bankruptcy - both have the same end result of buying the homeowner some time to work things out so they don't lose their home but the methods and ramifications of the two ways will affect the homeowner for years to come.

Perhaps I just don't understand or laws are different in other states.

Reply by Ted_MI on 1/29/05 10:45am
Msg #18734

Sue,

my thoughts were along the same lines as yours. But the people that Brenda is talking about are not paralegals; they are individuals who have purchased and presumably read V Ring's book.

I still think what they do is input info supplied to them by attorneys onto forms. Now admittedly I haven't read her book. This is the impression I get from reading her newsletter.

Reply by BrendaTX on 1/29/05 2:28pm
Msg #18749

sue:
"in my area, you meet with a lawyer FIRST for bankruptcy, divorce, whatever. ... etc..."

And, sue seems to be in agreement with VR's book.

The book is about getting outsourced work from bankruptcy lawyers. Theoretically lawyers work with the processor, of course, and hire the processors to do specific work for a fee. It's not a source to learn how to fully understand bankruptcy law, but does give concepts of how to start the business if you are willing to do outside self-education. And, it does provide a plethora of resources if you are willing to do the work. Again, it's not a get rich quick scheme. I am glad the price is high enough someone should be serious before tackling the concepts in it. I got a lot of interesting ideas from it.

IMHO - You should not buy any book if you expect it to fully educate you for any segment of business.

Reply by Rick/WA on 1/29/05 8:42pm
Msg #18779

No, but Judgment Recovery is a way to go. I started last month.

Reply by AZ Notary on 1/29/05 11:22pm
Msg #18786

What is judement recovery? I am interested to know because in the state of AZ you are unable to do the bankruptcy business inless you are a certified Document preparer and reg. with the state. SO, that puts me out. I am however interested in the judgement recovery. Please explain.

Thank you.