Posted by Mike/NJ on 1/3/05 9:49pm
Msg #15358
Companies lowering fees in 05
Seems in the past 2 weeks our company has been getting renewal contracts and all of them state a 50 dollar fee.
I replied to each one that we would gladly update our file information and not sign the contract as our lowest fee started at a point much higher then theres.
Is it me or does it seem companies are low balling us now. I also noticed in my area people must be taking the low signings as they use to call us back when they could not find anyone.
| Reply by Lee/AR on 1/3/05 10:10pm
Msg #15359
This is a general statement--not intended for anyone in particular.
C'mon... it's YOUR business and you charge what you think is a fair fee. Does your plumber, auto mechanic, accountant, dr., dentist, etc, etc, ask you what you want to pay them? Of course not! This is not charity work; it's a business.
| Reply by Mike/NJ on 1/3/05 10:17pm
Msg #15360
Exactly...
People who do the 50 dollar or less signings are hurting themselves in the long run. Our hourly rate is figured @ 45-50 dollars an hour.
| Reply by AppearB4Me on 1/3/05 10:56pm
Msg #15364
I think if we keep our standards high, they will have no choice but to meet our standards. When I began this line of work, I accepted my first 2 assignments for $50. After that I maintained my own fees. I may not be totally familiar with other loan packages but I can certainly know where signatures and seals are needed! I may be slower going through the docs but that's on my buck, not my standards. I am still filling out registrations and applications, searching for new clients. New I may still be, but I feel insulted when I am offered $40 - $50 fee.
Just my 2 cents.
| Reply by maryanne on 1/4/05 9:47am
Msg #15390
If we do an excellent job over and over, then we should feel good about charging a $75 minimum. If I accept signings for less, than I will only begin to resent those that higher me... and I will not care if there is a problem. Companies paying us less than what we deserve are not going to have happy notaries to call. The expense to run a signing company has gone up, and so instead of working out a good contract with the title or mortgage companies, they want to cut our fees? Do you think a plumber would start his truck for $50. Absolutely not. We have no retirement, not sick days, no vacation days. If we take a day off, we still have to answer our cell phone to pick up work for the days we are back to work....so we do not really get a day off.
So, I say have self respect....for now you may do a few less signings, but that will change when the notaries that are left are not as detail oriented and on the ball as we are!
| Reply by hoosiernotary on 1/4/05 2:58pm
Msg #15414
You arent looking at this from the signing companies prospective. In their eyes, we are expendable!!! If one notary goes away unhappy, big deal....there is another one who will gladly take the assignment for a lesser fee! It's called competition!!!! And these signing companies have the same amount of competition to keep the accounts that they have as well. If you do the same job as one of your competitors, why should I pay you more? If I call another plumber will "start the truck" for $50, then why are you getting mad at me for wanting to same some money and maximize my profits? You said it yourself that costs of running these kinds of businesses are going up. Also, how do you know the quality of someone who will take the job for $50 is any less than yours? Is you stamp nicer than theirs? Do they have nicer pens to have the customers sign with? Honestly, how in the world can you make a statement like that? Remember, what we do is NOT rocket science!!!!! If you dont like how much you get paid, then FIRE your referral sources and get out there and get some new ones!!!!!!!
| Reply by Nicole_NCali on 1/4/05 3:11pm
Msg #15415
I beg to differ. I work for an agency who issue permits to contractors. Well if a contractor who like a plumber, requests a permit on your behalf screws up the job, doesn't get the proper re-inspections, etc, like for instance that $50 plumber, then as a consumer you are back where you started, a overun toilet and still a need to get another plumber. Get another $50 plumber, and have the same issue, so you are now out of 100 bucks and your toilet is still crapping all over your floor. Now, if you had hired a reputable plumber/notary from the beginning, your toilet is fixed (warranted/guaranteed) and you spent $125/hr.
I have only been doing this for a couple of months, but I also have 2 friends who are loan officers who will pay top dollar for a notary who will get the job done right the first time and guarantee their work. I don't do all of their signings but this is a major sticking point for them especially in regards to a 500k-700k loan(quality work all the time....)
| Reply by Roger/OH on 1/4/05 3:24pm
Msg #15417
Hoosiernotary feels that what we do "isn't rocket science", and that SS are justified in finding the cheapest NSA they can. Granted, quantum physics doesn't often come into play during a signing; however, the quality and accuracy of what we do affects everyone involved in the loan process. If SS keep recruitinging to the lowest common denominator, then that's exactly what they will receive in terms of quality. Like anything else, you get what you pay for. There are newbies who are very good and there are veterans that make mistakes. Most of the time though, proven experience and quality will rise to the top, and we're the ones who get called upon to clean up the messes. SS do need people they can rely upon to get it right the first time. Bottom line is - stick to your fees.
| Reply by hoosiernotary on 1/4/05 3:58pm
Msg #15420
Let me pose a simple question: How much money are you making reading this post? If a SS would have called you yesterday with an easy HELOC where the documents were to be overnighted for a signing right now, you would have taken it? Knowing you had nothing else going, you still would have said no? Sorry folks, I would take it and any more like it!!!! Now, are you going to paint me with an "inferior" brush because I said yes? How can you make a quality assumption based on the fact that I said yes? Seriously? My 15 years experience with mortgage and financial documents probably way surpasses most of you folks. I guess that I find it offensive that you would assume that my service levels are lower than yours because I would say yes to someone paying me $50 to do a closing instead of sitting on the couch watching reruns of the Jerry Springer show!!!!
| Reply by Roger/OH on 1/4/05 4:25pm
Msg #15421
There's nothing wrong with taking a quick $50 HELOC that's close by and takes 15 minutes. But that's not on the same level as a 120-page Ameriquest with a lot of little detail nooks and crannies; if you'd do one of those for $50, even overnighted, then you and your business deserve them.
| Reply by BrendaTX on 1/4/05 5:58pm
Msg #15426
**Now, are you going to paint me with an "inferior" brush because I said yes?**
No way...I would not pretend to know what you can work for.
And, I ***will*** accept a $50 signing from two standing clients.
After one short year in the business I know this much:
$50 companies are hiring new notaries more than experienced. Thus, they expect fax backs and other QC routines that fluster and frustrate *this* Texas notary to death.
Some people have NO PROBLEM doing these types of QC requirements and must think in different lines than I do.
Keeping the docs in order makes me nuts when I am pulling out 20-43 pages to fax back. I'd go back to 8-5 before I could do it on a steady basis. Seriously.
BUT, I understand why it's necessary.
Here is a for instance of what I mean...
Lately, just to ask my opinion of a company, a three notaries have faxed me obsessively LONG QC requirements from a Houston company. Each time the requirements get LONGER.
This is a company that will wear you out trying to get your fee to $50 if they believe they can. I have asked them to remove me from their database because a call came in today from this company. (They also paid me past 60 days.)
This company has been assigning a few TCT assignments, and now, IF there are edocs to print, this company even says first print the docs on legal, then, for the borrower's copy, reset your printer to print on letter size. That's a little bit of a micromanage maneuver. The fax backs wind up being around 45 pages in some cases- even with the cheapest fax service I use, it costs at least $1 to fax back all those QC pages and cuts into my $50.
Some people don't like English peas, and I don't like doing all the QC things for $50. I posted earlier that I will jump through hoops to help the borrower and a good client. $50 companies have routinely frustrated me (except for one great client that I will ALWAYS do $50 signings for) because they are so focused on catching mistakes of newer notaries that accept their fees.
So...to finish this up...I would not take a $50 HELOC in Texas because it requires a lender branch, title company, or an attorney's office to close in and those same $50 folks want you to locate one of those and do the job of begging your way into that setting.
NO...I don't think less of anyone who takes a $50 signing. I just think I am not cut out for all the requirements I have run into as a result of taking $50 signings.
| Reply by CaliNotary on 1/5/05 3:51am
Msg #15470
I have to agree with you hoosier. I'm constantly reading in here how the good notaries will eventually rise to the top of the heap when these companies get sick of the crappy work the inexperienced notaries are doing. While I think that will eventually happen, I need to pay my rent and buy food while I'm waiting for it to happen. I'm single, if I don't earn the money there's nobody else for me to fall back on.
While I would love to raise my rates, and while I'm completely confident in my ability to do a thorough and professional job, I'm not quite as confident that these companies are going to care about that as much as they care about their bottom line. Especially when there are literally hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of notaries in my area who would be glad to do the work in my place.
The reality is that the signing agent market is changing rapidly and it's not in our favor. Competitive pricing is a vital part of a successful business. I've cleared 5K per month for the past 3 months and worked less thn 40 hours a week to earn it. For me that is good enough. I'm more concerned about my monthly total than I am about earning an extra $10 or $15 on one signing. I figure what I'm "losing" there I'm more than making up for on all of the easy 20 minute NASCO signings that I'm doing, where I'm getting much more than $50 per signing.
Out of 59 signings I did last month, 8 of them were $50 signings. To me those are easy money, very limited travel involved, an hour and a half of my time max (under normal circumstances). Since they don't comprise a big percentage of my business, why am I going to risk that easy $400 a month for a possible gain of maybe an extra hundred or so bucks?
No matter what people in here like to think, this is NOT a hard job. It's probably the easiest job I've ever had. Yes, there are signings where things are insane, but most of my signings go like clockwork and I'm in and out in about 45 minutes or less. I just point to where they need to sign, notarize what needs to be notarized, double check things and head out the door. I'll try to answer their questions IF they ask, but I don't volunteer information if they don't. It ain't my job to explain the loan to them.
I think a lot of experienced signing agents are going to be in for a huge reality check in the next year or two. It's a Wal Mart world out there, a lot of people are willing to sacrifice some quality for a better price. And a lot of times they're not even sacrificing quality because there are notaries like me who are willing to "slum it" occasionally for a few easy bucks.
| Reply by BrendaTX on 1/5/05 6:22am
Msg #15473
Cali's right about his attitude.
But, I so think there may be a difference in the packages from Texas vs. the packages from California. Thus, my problem with excessive fax backs.
In Texas, there are sometimes as many as 20 or more notarizations in the stack. Seldom less than 10. If QC requires that each notary page be faxed back, plus the TIL, and RTC that runs into quite a bit of time. IF the entire document has to be faxed back, that can be crazy.
I have done packages for people visiting here from Florida, California, New Mexico, and Arizona . They were quite different in requirements of notarized signatures.
* * * No matter what people in here like to think,
this is NOT a hard job. It's probably the easiest
job I've ever had. * * *
A good rule of thumb is that as long as I stick to companies that don't mind paying a $60-$75 base, this remains true for me, also.
********I think a lot of experienced signing agents are going to be in for a
huge reality check in the next year or two. It's a Wal Mart world out there********
I agree with Cali that I think it is time for notaries to realize that unless you are entrenched in this business, you need to stop thinking along the lines of earning "title co. fees" because this is not something that's realistic in my experience. I am not what I consider "entrenched."
Just set your fees at what you can make money on, figure out your marketing strategy, and go from there.
| Reply by hoosiernotary on 1/5/05 10:43am
Msg #15494
OOOOOOHHHHHHH MYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Somebody gets it!!!!!!!!!!!
Thank you CaliNotary...
| Reply by Professional Research, TX on 1/15/05 12:30pm
Msg #16884
I was certified in real estate law in 1994 and have just started adding mobile notary to mycurrent research business. One of the companies that wrote me to be thrilled about becoming a notary for them produced the $50.00 fee which I graciously turned down. This should be an average of any closing they send you on under 75 miles I think is the rate before they start paying mileage. If you reduce to accept one's close to your house that is what they will only use you for and find someone else for the other closing close to their house. This is what is happening in the research part of the industry. Be smart and retain your pricing. I will at least - I know more about closings and real estate than probably alot of you do it sounds - like you are getting notary commissions without backgrounds and law and real estate and that is when problems occur.
| Reply by anonymous on 1/5/05 10:58pm
Msg #15568
You should be commended for your attitude!! Its too bad that there are not more that do think this way. I work for a signing agency quite frequently that I started out with about a year ago, and they pay on a very timely basis, They pay $50 for HELOCS, and $60 for Refis, and an add'l $25 for email docs. There are times when I travel a little further, that they pay more, due to distance traveled and terrain traveled. I feel the same way. If I had nothing going, and someone called me to do a closing, versus turning it down or making $50 driving 10 or 15 miles, and 1/2 hrs work, I would certainly not turn it down! Especially if they pay on time, and are easy to work with! I am not money hungry, and I do charge more to the title companies than the signing agencys because I know that they cannot pay as well as the title companies.
| Reply by Anonymous on 1/13/05 5:28pm
Msg #16633
There are poeple like us who are glad hoosiernotary takes all of the $50 jobs...it leaves the $100+ jobs for the rest of us! Thanks! Although, at the same time, it is people like hoosiernotary that bring down signing fees! I won't leave my front door for under $100 and I get more respect from loan comapnies because of it! Good luck with your $50 signing!
| Reply by FB.CA on 1/4/05 5:52pm
Msg #15425
SUPPLY and DEMAND...basic economics
It is all about supply and demand.
If there are gluts of new notaries who quit their fast-food jobs after hearing an NNA ad on the radio and taking the crash course, those notaries may not find $50/signing quite as offensive as notaries who take the job seriously and worked in a professional environment before making the switch to notary work.
There are lots of part-time students and stay-at-home moms who would rather make $50 per signing than minimum wage at another part-time job... and that creates an over-supply of notaries. As long as there are notaries taking the $50 assignments, most SS will offer that amount as payment.
Many experienced notaries insist that their expertise is worth more and that companies that want quality notary/SA work will pay more... but so many SS and even title companies ask notaries to backdate that it seems like they would PREFER a newbie who doesn't know better anyways.
This is how I see it. In the last few years the number of signing agents seems to have grown exponentially... the SS can pick and choose for the cheapest notary.
-FB/CA http://www.berys.com/notary
| Reply by Ingrid_FL on 1/5/05 1:17pm
Msg #15504
As a stay at home mom.....
I find fault with your remark -- it makes it seem as if stay at home moms aren't intelligent enough to find work that pays more than minimum wage.
I have an accounting degree. I decided not to go the CPA track, and looking back probably should have gotten my degree in business education -- I may just yet go back for my masters in teaching, but not until my kids are all in school.
I stay at home with my children (three of them - Harry, 7yrs, Ruth 19 months, Molly 1 month) because I don't believe my two daughters will get the proper amount of care or attention in a day care center. Plus, my daughter Ruth has a heart condition, which lowers her immunity. Not to mention the expense - I would be going to work to pay for the cost of daycare.
I decided to stary a mobile notary business because it would give me the flexiblity I need to care for my children and help pay the family bills.
Being a new notary and not having any signing experience, I will have to take the $50 assignments in order to get my foot in the door and get some signings under my belt.
Ingrid
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