Posted by Toots on 1/12/05 9:19pm
Msg #16517

Legal mambo jumbo...

RE: Notary Forms

So, when my SOS says that "The following forms are sufficient for the purposes indicated, if completed with the information as required by law: ...." Does this mean that if more information is given, it would be acceptable?

For example, acknowledgement certificate:

State of _______
County of ________

This instrument was acknowledged before me on the (date) by (name).

Seal signature


If Lender sends a package with a certificate with the CA ack verbiage, would it be ok for me to use since all the info required is included?

Reply by colorless/AZ on 1/12/05 10:10pm
Msg #16522



I have found the certificate and language to which you refer. It is in your notary handbook, and it looks like the answer to your question might be located in your handbook on page 29, (K.S.A. 53-508(b).)

Reply by Becca/FL on 1/12/05 10:12pm
Msg #16523

Firat of all Toots, please post the state in which you reside and practice; ie: Toots/FL or Toots/CA. By doing so, you will receive better answers to your questions.

As for your question, that depends. What state are you in, what does the SOS require in a notarial certificate and so on.

Check your handbook and if you can't find the answer call the SOS. It is your job to understand the notarial laws of your state. It's not just "legal mumbo jumbo".

Reply by Toots on 1/12/05 10:49pm
Msg #16529

Ok, I don't think you understand my question....let me rephrase it.

**The following forms are sufficient for the purposes indicated, if completed with the information as required by law:

State of _______
County of ________

This instrument was acknowledged before me on the (date) by (name).

Seal signature** This is quoted from KS SOS handbook.

Given the above statement (**-**), does the notarial cert have to be exact, word for word as above or could it be alright to use wordings like a CA ack cert which contains MORE information

Reply by Becca/FL on 1/12/05 10:55pm
Msg #16532

Again - If you are not sure and can not find the info in your manual, contact your SOS. Many of us are not in Kansas (Dorothy) and can not answer your question. Do the research, go to the source, get the answer(s) you need to do the work. 'Nuf said.

Reply by Toots on 1/12/05 11:02pm
Msg #16533

Is it me, or can some people not understand the question?

Reply by colorless/AZ on 1/12/05 11:39pm
Msg #16534

I saw you post earlier that you were in Kansas and I did go look up your state's handbook online, did you read the area I told you about?

Reply by Toots on 1/12/05 11:55pm
Msg #16536

Let me try to ask the question again....I know what it says in my handbook. I quoted it in my post. My question was in reference to what it says in the handbook. When it said "sufficient for the purpose indicated, if completed with the information required..." does it mean that it doesn't have to be exact wording, word for word, but that, as long as it provides the required information it would fine?" As an example, the CA ack verbiage contains more information that required by KS, would it therefore be permissable to use CA ack wording?

Reply by BrendaTX on 1/13/05 12:34am
Msg #16539

I understand your question, but I cannot answer it for you.

As Becca said, if the manual does not answer the question for you, call your secretary of state.

Reply by HisHughness on 1/13/05 12:43am
Msg #16541

Mambo = male mamba
Mambo jumbo = Big-assed mambo
Legal mambo jumbo = Big-assed mambo with greencard

Reply by Toots on 1/13/05 12:47am
Msg #16543

Thanks for the humor....really needed it!

Reply by colorless/AZ on 1/13/05 12:53am
Msg #16544

Try paragraph 7 on page 11.

Reply by Toots on 1/13/05 1:00am
Msg #16545

What I understand in this paragraph is simply the origination of the document....not the notarial wording.

What do you understand by "sufficent for the the purpose indicated, if completed with the information as required" (this is the legal mumbo jumbo I was referring to)

Reply by colorless/AZ on 1/13/05 1:09am
Msg #16546

I'm not trying to be rude but I have already read more of your handbook than I care to. If this were my handbook I would not need to ask the question you have asked because I can see the answer is there. However, I am not a lawyer, I am not your SOS and all I can do is point to were the answer is. I therefore, respectfully, request that you now read paragraph 29 on page 18.


Page 18
29. What should I do when I have a question about performing a notarial act? Contact the secretary of State's office for assistance or your legal counsel for advice.

Reply by BrendaTX on 1/13/05 1:16am
Msg #16547

Exactly.

Reply by colorless/AZ on 1/13/05 1:22am
Msg #16548

Brenda,

I called you back. He FINALLY got the software loaded it took all day. Call tomorrow when you have time, okay. I'll be here.

Reply by BrendaTX on 1/13/05 2:44am
Msg #16558

Will do.

Reply by Becky on 1/13/05 2:06am
Msg #16552

What's the matter with you people?

The poor lady is not asking how to word the acknowledgment or what it says in her SOS handbook. She knows what it says...but she is asking our opinion what it means! What does it mean "sufficient for the purpose".

Toots, I believe it means that as long as you have the required information, it is sufficient. You can have a page long acknowledgment, but as long as it has all the required information, it is alright.

++++ this is what I think ++++

Food for thought: if we direct all our questions to the relavant entities....why do we need this forum?

Reply by Terri - CA on 1/13/05 2:12am
Msg #16554

Re: What's the matter with you people?

Unfortunately, the poster is asking others to interpret the poster's state's Handbook. That we cannot do. Now if another Kansas Notary were to be posting, he or she might be willing to post what their interpretation is.

Thus, the answer is, we are unable to interpret the statement given to you by your State's Handbook. Please contact your State's SOS office for clarification of the issue.

I know that for California, there are certain criteria that must be met in order for me to use another state's acknowledgment verbiage. Since I don't have it memorized, I keep my handbook with me and refer to it as necessary. I compare the criteria to the verbiage, if it meets the criteria, then I can use it. But since that's such a pain (and not something I want to do in front of a borrower), I'll usually just attach a Loose California All Purpose Acknowledgment. Then I know I've complied with my state's laws, period.

So, perhaps one answer could be, why worry about it, cross it out, attach a certificate that contains your states verbiage.

Terri
Lancaster, CA

Reply by BrendaTX on 1/13/05 2:40am
Msg #16556

Re: What's the matter with you people?

Becky said in relvant part: "++++ this is what I think ++++"

And, Toots still does not have a definitive answer to this question.

Referring a notary back to their rules to find the 100% accurate answer is not something I feel badly about.

If it were me and my commission I'd rather pick up the phone and get the right answer rather than have to later defend myself by saying, "Well, since a poster on NotaryRotary.com thought it was okay, I took her word for it."

I know the final answer for Texas, but I would not presume to interpret the Kansas Law by the standards of the office of the Secretary of State in Texas.

Perhaps we don't need these forums. Opinions and guesses by well-meaning people may do more harm than good.

We can use forums to guide us toward getting the answers. Period. But we are each responsible for doing the notary part of our job. Even if you work for a lawyer, you are still responsible for your notary duties.

I cannot state enough times for other notaries that is extremely important to get to the source of answers for yourself. You'll get a lot of insight on the NSA business here, but do not rely on forum advice. Get the answer for yourself.

Reply by Charm_AL on 1/13/05 8:03am
Msg #16565

Amen Brenda!!!

Really! The laws are different for every state...Why do people come here for answers that can be illegal within their own states? Go back to basic notary public 101...
Call your SOS or Sec. of State! geeze

Reply by Dennis D Broadbooks on 1/13/05 9:35am
Msg #16573

Well Stated, Brenda.

Forums such as this can be a great aid OR they can turn into a debacle for someone seeking an answer that's specific to their state. I'm continually amazed at the individuals who are willing to post responses to questions from states other than their own. No disclaimers (other than showing their home state in their "handle"), no "seek the answer on your own", no "this is simply my opinion", or no "this is the answer for MY state"...all they do is lay it out as if it were gospel for all concerned, when they could very easily be leading that person astray because their state laws differ.

A good example of this is the widely accepted "fact" it's verboten (implication: forbidden, cannot do, illegal) to notarize a document with blank spaces in it. While it's a good "idea" to have all spaces filled in...as a Missouri Notary Public I cannot decline to place my seal on a document for that reason alone. While our MO SOS office "highly encourages" us as Notaries to make the signer aware of the fact the document contains blank spaces, it's still not left up to us as to whether to proceed with the notarization or not based solely on that criteria. If someone were to ask me to notarize a document with blank spaces in it, I then advise them that's it's "better" if they fill the blank spaces in, & their desire is to continue on without following this admonition...I have no choice legally but to notarize the document.

Another issue I see repeated ad infinitum is the discomforting practice of quoting laws/statutes off the Internet from other states & presenting it as fact to a poster who's asked a question. I'd submit this is a foolish practice, bordering on dangerous. Unless you're from the same state as the person who's asking the question, a fellow poster has no business quoting laws or statutes off web sites & pretending this is the final, definitive answer. Who knows if this person's research is accurate or timely? Laws change continually & are updated every single day. Rather than provide the answer to someone in a legal area I think it's infinitely wiser to point them in a direction & have them do their own research. BTW, I'm not talking about replies referencing non-legal issues such as whether to use a FedEx drop box or not. I'm restricting my comments to those who think they're the "legal beagles" for the entire country for no apparent good reason other than wanting to be the first to provide the answer. To satisfy your desires in this area I'd suggest you become a contestant on Jeopardy or at the very least start inserting some disclaimers in your answers. Yes it's incumbent on each of us to be responsible for what we "take to the bank", but I also believe there's also a responsibility we hold to our fellow posters to avoid leading them down a primrose path.

JMHO!

Reply by Maureen/nh on 1/13/05 11:23am
Msg #16589

Re: Well Stated, Brenda.

You know the old saying" you can lead a horse down the primrose path but you can't make him smell the coffee."

Reply by CarolynCO on 1/15/05 12:04pm
Msg #16880

I hope before I get to the bottom of this particular thread that you have taken it upon yourself to call your SOS.

Reply by Becca/FL on 1/13/05 9:54am
Msg #16575

Listen, Toots...

we understand the question, you are simply NOT understanding the answer.

Thanks to Brenda, Cali & Dennis for saying what I could not say last night. Hopefully, your comments will enlighten some of the newer folks on this board and motivate them to do the proper research.

Reply by Notary_Girl on 1/13/05 11:12am
Msg #16587

Re: Listen, Toots...

Boy this is a tough group.. Kind of reminds me of High School... I do understand all your points as to NOT being able to specifically answering the question... What I don't understand is the "attitude" towards Toots... But then again I haven't kept up with this group for a while and maybe I am missing something... I will have to go back through and read up!
In any event, I hope everyone has a great day!
I would like to ask a question, do you find that January (well at least the first couple of weeks so far), typically are slower over all? I mean is it something to be expected every year? I know that other businesses can pretty much predict which month(s) will be the slowest for them and I was just wondering if that is the case with a NSA business? And if that is the case, I was wondering what you do to supplement your income during the slow periods of this business?
TIA for the information
Linda.....

Reply by Urban/PA on 1/13/05 12:12pm
Msg #16595

Re: Listen, Toots...

During the months of January - March, you should begin to see calls boost in April. Check into providing services such as: safe deposit drillings for local banks ( in most states, an internal notary can't perform the act), getting licensed as a card agent for the Department of Motor Vechicles in your state, offering services at hospitals, nursing homes, etc. If you are good at taking pictures, you can do field inspection work for companies. They may ask you to check to see if a repair was done or to go to a designated place to inspect if people put flyer hangers on a person's front door and take pictures as proof.

Reply by Happy in Fl on 1/13/05 8:04pm
Msg #16650

Or, you can...

use the time to catch up on all the "Honey Do's".