Posted by BrendaTX on 1/31/05 10:42am
Msg #18840

Query: Don't fill in the right to cancel

When you get a directive not to fill in the right to cancel, but the borrower requests it, what do you do?

I am talking about mfg home refi.

Reply by Lee/AR on 1/31/05 10:48am
Msg #18843

Scary! But, it IS the B's loan; not yours. If you can't reach someone to explain the 'why blank', I'd tell B's it could possibly cause a funding problem, but it's their call. And add a sticky note on the RTC that the B's would not sign unless filled in. What else ya' gonna do?

Reply by BrendaTX on 1/31/05 1:36pm
Msg #18877

Transfering Titles of Mfg Homes - Refis, etc.

Yep - Lee, I agree.

Some companies I have realized I just cannot work for without it being a big hassle.

I know my notary laws very well and every time I do a job for this company - they pay fast enough, meet my fee BUT the notary docs (aside from the blank RTC) bother me enough that I am not going to accept another assignment until I get some direction on my problems with the notary docs from SOS. Done with it for now.

Reply by Ted_MI on 1/31/05 1:32pm
Msg #18876

Brenda,

It is my impression that the right to cancel is mandated by federal law, when one is talking about principal residences. And I suppose that since you are talking about a manufactured home being refinanced, you are indeed dealing with a principal residence. Not aware that there are any exceptions for manufactured homes.

Reply by BrendaTX on 1/31/05 1:55pm
Msg #18878

I agree Ted. However, since it is not a notarized document, the way I see it, that falls under business between the bwr and the lender - not the notary. And, we cannot police the lender at the signing table if borrower agrees to it. **IMHO**. I am not trying to be a Smart Aleck, but the problem is that no law states that a notary signing agent has to fill in a right to cancel, if you see what I mean.

I do note it in my log when I get something weird like this...and the reason given.

In this instance, B wanted it filled in. I said ok and told them it might be a problem - showed him the doc which said don't do it or it might delay the loan.

He said not to waste his time calling in. Post signing, via fax back confirmation, I gave the company I was working for notice in copious detail and advised they should get the LO to explain the document and I would go back for free...but, I did the best I could with what I had to work with at the time.

This guy was a PITA PITA PITA. I was GLAD GLAD GLAD that he wanted to meet at a public place albeit the time was 8 am on Sat. and two hours earlier than I accepted the assignment for.

Reply by BrendaTX on 1/31/05 2:24pm
Msg #18886

Ted - Someone else thinks you are right

I received a private email from an SA I hold in high regard regarding this situation. This individual agrees with you and that the NSA should see the situation fulfilled.

Whichever way the hammer drops on this one, I am in the clear because the borrower wanted it filled in and I complied. Further, I have advised those I was working for, and I did the job correctly by "my" standards by utilizing proper jurat and ack language even though the same provided was incorrect.

My solution is to refuse further signings of this nature - from this company. The occasional assignments I receive are not worth the fear of losing my commission.

B

Reply by Ted_MI on 1/31/05 3:03pm
Msg #18891

Brenda,

True; no law probably states that an nsa has to fill in a right to cancel. But by the same token do you really want to be a party to an illegal transaction, particularly in these litigious times? I don't think anyone, including yourself, wants to buy themselves a law suit, so to speak. Now admittedly making proper notations in your log book is a very good idea. It might well help you get out of a lawsuit, but you don't want to be in one in the first place.

You stated "since it is not a notarized document". I take it you are referring to the right to cancel. So what does that have to do with anything? You are still the one handling the transaction.

Reply by BrendaTX on 1/31/05 3:55pm
Msg #18897

Hugh - sue - Paul-FL - Bob? Give us your opinion.

Ted: "So what does that have to do with anything? "

We'll see what the others I have mentioned above think if they drop by NotRot.

Ted - I think it is wrong to leave the RTC blank. So...I will not do another one of these loans. I hate them and I am done with them. That's my protection. I have already stated this. In this transaction, the borrower wanted it filled in and I fill them in with much rejoicing that he caught on.

But, I still feel inclined to agree with Lee/AR in that what is determined between Lender & Borrower may override my authority i notary witness position in a mfg home ref to uphold Federal Law. Yes...I can read the law, and you can read the law...but what law can we cite to protect our position?

I believe I *can* say: If you don't like what I did, don't pay me and we'll take it to the mat.

However, can I state this with citable source and authority that this is true? I don't think so.

In closing - I am thrilled for this to be discussed because I think it is a VERY important thing to determine for NSAs. I am offended enough about parts of the loan I witnessed the signing of that I am contacting the SOS and looking to find out where to take it next.

Also, let me say that I WANT to be proved wrong.

B

Reply by PAW_Fl on 1/31/05 5:14pm
Msg #18907

Re: Hugh - sue - Paul-FL - Bob? Give us your opinion.

Manufactured homes, if registered as mobile homes are different than mfg homes that are considered real property, at least here in FL. In a real property transaction, I would balk at an RTC with no dates on it, but leave it up to the borrowers to decide.

For mobile homes, I've done a couple of Western Finance who specifically state to leave the RTC blank until the title work is complete. Again, I leave the decision up to the borrowers whether or not to date it.

As a prudent Signing Agent, the only date that I'm concerned with in reality, is the date they sign the documents. If that's left blank, I'm not comfortable with it, but will do as the borrowers wish.

The form is a formality as the law states the explicit terms of the Right of Rescission, whether or not a form is used.

Reply by sue on 1/31/05 8:07pm
Msg #18937

Re: Hugh - sue - Paul-FL - Bob? Give us your opinion.

I'm agreeing with Paul that manufactured homes (still trailers to me but some are really nice) can be affixed to real estate and then treated like any other loan we do or they can be personal property if not affixed to real estate. In our capacity we have no idea at all which they are and it's not our bu siness. If they are personal property, I've got absolutely no idea at all how and when a RTC comes into play - sort of like the Kirby sweeper salesman or the window man coming to your home. I'm usually odd man out when I say that the RTC should mean nothing more to us than any other document in the package and we follow instructions given to us - this being a good example, although I had not thought of this scenario previously.

How did you know they didn't want the date inserted? Did they verballly tell you or give you a note? With a note, I'd have shown it to the borrower. I haven't done mobile home loans for a while. I did a lot of them maybe 3 years ago and I don't remember why but I didn't like them either. Most of mine were with Conseco passing through a broker.

Reply by BrendaTX on 1/31/05 9:34pm
Msg #18950

Re: Hugh - sue - Paul-FL - Bob? Give us your opinion.

>>How did you know they didn't want the date inserted? Did they verballly tell you or give you a note? With a note, I'd have shown it to the borrower. <<

It was in both the SS instructions to me and from the lender. That's what I did - showed it to the borrower.

He said: Fill it in!



[Chicago Bob, if you are out there, I can see you rolling your eyes at me now. You know I have to get my hackles up about once a quarter over something practically not worth it.]

Reply by CaliNotary on 1/31/05 5:32pm
Msg #18909

I think it should be mentioned that the right to cancel exists independently of what any document may or may not say. While I think it's definitely strange that they don't want the dates on the document filled in, all the RTC forms that I see clearly state that the RTC begins on the date the documents were signed. So I wouldn't worry too much about the blank dates, but I'd make damn sure that the date was present next to the borrower's signature.

Reply by CaliNotary on 1/31/05 5:42pm
Msg #18913

Oh duh, I see that I just parroted what Paul said in his post right above mine. Great minds think alike!

Reply by BrendaTX on 1/31/05 6:04pm
Msg #18918

I appreciate it Ted, Lee, Paul, and CaliNotary...

Thanks for the discussion.

Now, we can all agree we don't agree all the time,
but still love to get together and sing campfire songs in harmony.