Posted by Jon on 1/15/05 11:56pm
Msg #16952

Response to "HELP" from Anonymous

I noticed that the usual persons that tell us that we are rude to "rookies", declined to reply to Anon's post. I find it interesting that those who so readily tell us to be nice to those who post questions like "What's the difference between an ack and a jurat" didn't seem so ready to defend Anon's more specific post. I thought we should look at what was posted.

1. "What should I use for ID? I think the class said DL, but I'm not sure. Will other documents work for ID?" Pretty self explanatory.

2. "Do I need to fill out all of the spaces in my journal, or just the signature and date?"
The real question here is do I need to use a journal, and what is required for the entries?

3. "One more thing, which notary wording should I use? One is long and the other is short. I want to use the short one because it is less writing and I think it will look neater on the pages. The short one says "Subscribed and sworn to me on<blank> by <blank>. The other one says "On <blank> before me <blank> personally appeared <blank> personally known to me or proved to me on the basis of satisfactory evidence to be the person whose name is subscribed to the within instrument and acknowledge to me that he executed the same in his authorized capacity and that by his signature on the instrument the person or the entity upon behalf which the person acted executed the instrument."
This one is what is the difference between an acknowledgement and a jurat.

4. "Any one know why they didn't include the wording on all the documents? I know they all need to have the wording on them before I stamp and sign, I remember that from my class, but I don't know which wording to use for the documents that don't have the wording pre printed."
This can be re-worded how do I determine which documents need to be notarized.

The re-worded questions I posted above are the types of questions that we see routinely asked on this board, just not all at one time. When those of us who have been around for any length of time tell the poster to do some research, we are told that we are rude and unhelpful. My questions is, why did the defenders of those who ask such questions not come to the defense of Anon? My best guess is because when the questions are posted with such detail and all at the same time, it shows how ridiculous defending someone like Anon is. He obviously is concerned only about the money, and not about being a notary public.

I know that some of us make a decent living at this, and I find nothing wrong with that. I do, however, find something wrong when people become a notary for the sole purpose of being a SA, with no regard for the office or what it represents. The office of notary public is one of public trust and extreme responsibility. Many segments of the community rely on us to verify the authenticity of signer. Imagine if your home was used a security for a loan you didn't know about because the notary never took the time to find out what he/she is supposed to do to properly ID the signer. This is why some of us "veterans" get so frustrated by the continued posts of this type.

My favorite part of Anon's post is:
"BTW, can anyone give me the name of some companies that pay really well?"

I think that CarolynCO summed it up best when she said:
"Let me put this in the true perspective I think you really wrote it as -- I expect and deserve top dollar signings because I went to a notary class and passed my notary test."

That is the exact mentality of most of the posters who ask these questions. They see it as a "get rich quick scheme" due to the slick advertising and misleading information given to them by certain entities that offer one day seminars.

BTW, for those who speculated that Brenda/TX wrote the post, I can assure you that she did not.

Reply by Happy in Fl on 1/16/05 6:10am
Msg #16963

Jon- very interesting insight you have given. Thankyou for sharing.

Talking about providing service- that is what it is- and Yes their are financial rewards- but it takes time- time- time- to build up your business.. Can't agree more.

When my Notary commission arrived- I had spent some 28 years selling and ":Always Learning" Real Estate etc.- Still I spent 3 maybe four months- reading- getting certified- then going thru "Alll- each and every Post from start to last, on this Forum", (many -of those Posts I printed out--categotized- and have them filed for ready reference.

At the same time- I started gathering info, for my personal Avoid List- companies that repeatedly showed up, that other Notaries were having problems with. (Many of those Posts I printed out also) and have filed for ready reference.

Then, after laying all the ground work-for myself- started contacting companies- sending out Resumes- with certificates- etc- and have registered with over 300 companies- joined up with several organizations; ei: Premier Notary Rotary; NNA: ASN: Notary Beware:etc

"THERE IS NO POT OF GOLD- NO QUICK GET RICH NOW- BEING A SIGNING AGENT!" You have to pay your dues first- and as any business venture, you have to be the resident PRO- know as much as you can of the Trade- and we are ALWAYS LEARNING- becoming better-- (I'm always leary of people who think they have arrived- and have ALL the knowledge they need) life is a constant learning process- and we all keep feeding info into our Noodle on top of our shoulders- through out our life.

So Thank you- all the kind- experienced- Notaries- who have shared 'Time and Time again-helping me, and countless others over the years, become better at what we do! If I start mentioning names- when this is Posted- other names will come to mind- and to late--so to 'You All'- Please - from this Notary- accept my Heartfelt appreciation for the Help and assistance- that is now a Permanent Entry on this Forum, that Everyone can utilize as a ongoing Text- Book.

Please Keep Posting!

Reply by Notary_Girl on 1/16/05 10:11am
Msg #16969

Well I can tell you that I didn't reply because I was out doing signings and just didn't have time (unlike you) until now... I understand that there are those out there whose thinking is maybe lazy or they just aren't as intelligent as others, or just don't pay attention. OK whatever the reason, I just don't see that you (the "rude" ones) are ANY better as human beings that you feel you have the right to judge others... I would think that in the best interest of preserving our profession and reputation, as a whole, is to help the others get on the right track as soon as is possible or make them realize in a considerate way how important self education is and not slam them for what you consider stupidity. As far as I can tell we are all suppose to be here for the same reason, to improve our profession and help maintain our reputation in the industries that we serve. I know I don't want some notary out there who is completely "clueless" tarnishing my profession. Even though we are all not connected, the general public does not see it that way. They see notaries as a group and most likely will assume that if one is like that, then they ALL must be like that and will have the attitude that what services we do provide can not be handled by mere mortals like us, but instead, like "Hugh" indicated must be handled by Attorneys only. That's not gonna help any of us that are NOT attorneys and for myself I woudn't WANT to be an attorney.
I am not one of those that became a notary just to be a SA. I was a LDA and becoming a notary was part of the requirement of my job (which is the case for many many notaries. they just dont wake up one day and say "gee I want to become a Notary"), A couple of years later I looked for a way to make my commission work more for me... However I don't see a problem with those that do. That in no way indicates that they will be hap hazard about it. I think that maybe the opposite could be true. For them to be successful as a SA they have to be 105% as a Notary. But I am glad to see that you have nailed down the mentality of all the posters who ask those questions.

Notary_Girl

Reply by CaliNotary on 1/16/05 1:57pm
Msg #16982

"I just don't see that you (the "rude" ones) are ANY better as human beings that you feel you have the right to judge others"

Do you really not see how judgemental YOU are in this post (as well as most of the other posts I've seen from you)? Do you truly lack that much self awareness? Just amazing.

Reply by Jon on 1/16/05 2:03pm
Msg #16984

I would say that if you are "105%" as a notary, you won't need to ask the difference between an ack and a jurat. It is the basic notary questions that make most of us frustrated.

You said "I would think that in the best interest of preserving our profession and reputation, as a whole, is to help the others get on the right track as soon as is possible or make them realize in a considerate way how important self education is..." When we do that, we are told that we are rude, and if we don't want to supply the answer, don't respond.

You also stated "But I am glad to see that you have nailed down the mentality of all the posters who ask those questions."

Perhaps you should re-read my comments, I said it is the mentality of "...MOST of the posters who ask these questions." Again I say that most notaries who are "105%", don't ask basic notary questions(if they do, they are obviously not "105%").

Reply by LawrenceOK on 1/16/05 2:09pm
Msg #16987

I do not have a problem helping someone when I can, and they cant find the answer. I do however have a BIG problem with those "just out of the NNA nsa's looking for the big bucks" coming to this forum pretty much demanding that we give them our fee schedules, company lists and explain to them how to write out a jurat or ACK. When I first came to this board, there were only four notary/nsa's listed in my whole damn state, now I can count 23 just covering my county alone. Tell you anything?

Reply by ALI-il on 1/16/05 10:10pm
Msg #17024

And, maybe the first NSA in your state said when I came I was the only one now there are ? Then number twenty four will say when I came in there were only twenty four now, there are fifty.

And so on and so on.

It happens with every profession.

Reply by Lee/AR on 1/16/05 1:24pm
Msg #16978

Cuz it HAD to be somebody pulling our collective legs. (nm)

Reply by Lee/AR on 1/16/05 1:32pm
Msg #16980

Or bored & trying to start a riot. (nm)

Reply by Shane_IN on 1/16/05 4:36pm
Msg #16997

Why I didn't respond to "HELP"

By the time I actually read the post from the Anonymous HELP-meister, there were already a million replies just degrading the individual.

It would be doubtful that anyone would read thru those posts to get the right answer....

CarolynCO, while i respect her knowledge and have no doubt that she's an asset to this profession, I just just felt her couple paragraph post that just was blatantly screaming "What are you an idiot?"... was uncalled for, and not what I would like to think of, when I consider a community of our profession. God forbid she ever posts a question.....

A simple post that said, "Please review your class material as this was most likely covered" would have been sufficient, but she went the whole way to ensure, that whatever that person's need, they most likely will not ever post here again. Which in many of peoples eyes will be a good thing.

I would have preferred to see a post that said, "Review your class material", OR, a post that answered the questions.....her belittling post, simply set off a string of posts that followed her lead.

And I'm sorry for singleing CarolynCo out, she was the first reply and those most off attacking.

Just my input...take it for what it is....

Reply by CarolynCO on 1/16/05 6:08pm
Msg #17007

Re: Shane_IN

No offense taken for singling me out. You have just come on board this month, or at least started posting, so if you haven't read past threads/posts, you don't know that I'm much like Cali in saying it like I see it. I don't kiss your face and stab you in the back. I was raised that that is the best way -- people always know where I'm coming from -- it's all put out on the table. It's no different in my real life. Like what I say, or not. No one is forced to read my posts or others. The past few weeks, my list has definitely grown of people's posts I won't open or read. As it stands now, I'll most likely only be reading/responding to the "rude clique."

I have nothing against new signing agents and don't feel that I am above them. I am willing to help anyone who is willing to help themself. However, as has been posted over and over since the Help post from Anonymous and similar ones the past two weeks by the regulars of NotRot -- is the problems we have with new posters who have, more than likely, been taken in by NNA and come on board without any introduction and want us to give them the moon and the sun because that they are a newly commissioned notary and a signing agent; they don't want to do their homework, i.e., reading and studying this and other forums; wanting the list of our best signing service clients; wanting our charge rates; wanting, wanting, and wanting ...

My new policy beginning immediately (and I hope other regulars will follow) is that I refuse to reply to any anonymous poster; I refuse to waste my time telling people to read, read, read; I refuse to tell them that this is not a get rich quick opportunity, as the NNA has drilled into their head; and I refuse to tell posters to "Please review your class material as this was most likely covered!"

Reply by Shane_IN on 1/16/05 6:18pm
Msg #17008

Re: Shane_IN

I definitely can't fault you for that. I am still pretty new, but hopefully I don't get to the point where I'm frustrated and posting what reads like an attack on another notary.

Again, I agree ALL new signing agents do need to take the steps to learn and understand as much as possible. In my State, Indiana.... there is no class, tests to be taken. You simply pay your $10, get a Bond, and turn in your application.....and walllah! Your a notary.

It was my responsibility to learn the docs, learn the laws, and figure out exactly what I was doing before I got started.... however; there were instances where I had questions, and/or wanted to make sure i was misinterpretting or just flat out times where I didn't get it. I'm glad I resources where I could get my answers. I assume/hope that people that post here do at least what I did, before they start.

One thing I absolutely love about this forum, is in the event of an emergency, or impending immediate signing....if someone has a question and they post it....I see people respond in just a few minutes. Thats a credit to the community here.

Hopefully I haven't rubbed everyone the wrong way.... Perhaps like you, I just said it as I saw it.

Reply by CarolynCO on 1/16/05 6:32pm
Msg #17009

Re: Shane_IN

I admire you for taking the responsibility to learn the docs, learn the laws, and figure out exactly what you were doing before you got started. Unfortuntely, not all, but a majority of newly commissioned notaries and signing agents aren't doing that, but instead coming here and expecting us to educate them, and when we won't give them the specific answer but tell them where to look, we get the title of rude slapped on us. There is a reason, Hugh and Cali have posted over and over to read the threads from the beginning to the end -- it's some of the best education a person can get. Granted, there is some off-topic subjects, and you might see a different side to us in those posts -- hey, we're human and sometimes all need a laugh. If someone doesn't want to take the time to read completely through the threads, use the orange SEARCH button. A lot of signing services are listed in the siging services tab, or someone has asked about them before. Take out a Premier memberhip to NotRot and you will be able to see more info on the listed services. By using SEARCH you can find many topics and many answers, too.

Reply by Shane_IN on 1/16/05 6:41pm
Msg #17010

Re: Shane_IN

I upgrading to premiere immediately when coming aboard... and I think its the best thing I've done outside of networking in this business.

I read thru a portion of the old messages...only the topics that intrigued me, or that I was curious on. I won't ever take away from the knowledge that High, Cali, yourself, and others have. And I've seen on numerous occasions all of you helping others, which is great, and I'm sure the entire community is greatful.

I would rather see less attacking posts, if for no other reason than to just be able to keep up with the important topics on the board. Everyone needs to blow off steam, everyone gets in a bad mood...I just hate to see it taken out on someone, who maybe, just doesn't know better. Even though the top part of EVERY new message, reminds people to search for topics before they post on them.

Reply by Ali-IL on 1/16/05 10:04pm
Msg #17023

Re: Shane_IN

This forum is for asking questions and, like it says above from your peers. People that you feel may be experts in this field.

When I see certain answers to postings I picture these people as unhappy?

I you don't want competition or if you just simply feel that it is a very stupid question then, just don't answer it.

I have seen questions that I felt were dumb and they were answered with no problems. I didn't go on there and be rude to someone simply because I felt like it.

And, these questions that some new ones are asking, well some of the older ones have asked before.

I see very professional people come on this board and answer a question without a derogatory remarks.

Some of these people that are asking a stupid question may have a background in something that in the future you may need an answer to.

How did some of you know what to charge for your services? By maybe not coming out directly and asking but, by reading someone elses post.

If you do your job right you will not lose business. People will come and go and, you will still be here.

Reply by sloan88 on 1/17/05 6:31am
Msg #17038

Re: Anonymous posters

Hi everyone.
When I first began reading these posts, the first question that entered my mind was "Why are people posting anonymously?" I completely agree with you Carolyn - I will not answer anonymous posts/questions either - not just on this board. I think that there should be a policy on this site disallowing anonymous posting, mainly to discourage people from advertising, which is against the board's "rules." I am not new to signings, but am new to this forum, and I may well ask a silly question. But, at least you'll all know who it is!
Maybe others will follow Carolyn's personal policy and ignore anonymous posts. Count me in.
Sloan