Posted by kmnotary_CA on 1/14/05 1:23pm
Msg #16746

Scary

Last night I did a signing with an attorney present (Living Trust). I learned a lot about probate sales from listening to her. But one comment she made scared me so much that my pen jumped right off my journal.

The attorney was telling the client about a case where a Notary advised someone on how to vest their property. As it turned out minor children inherited the property, and the mother couldn't refinance, and was in a legal mess. There were some other things as well, but I forgot what she said.

I was shocked, and asked "The Notary advised them?"

This made me think of how many times lately I have read on this forum from Hugh, PAW Notary, Cali, and others about "Newbies" going out and trying to do OJT. It truely can be dangerous (sorry Hugh, can't think of another word at this moment) when someone goes to a class, and then without any further training, or experience, does signings, or other Notarial Acts that affect other peoples lives.

It has been said more times than I can count, "to learn the laws for our state", and just as many times, that "a Notary is not to give legal advice, unless they are in fact an attorney." Apparently more Notaries should read, and follow this advice, as it also affects other Notaries as well.

I, for one, have learned so much from this forum, and as Brenda says, use the search engines to find what I do not know. Thank you all for helping me always improve so my signings are not the object of what is wrong with some Notaries!

Reply by Toots on 1/14/05 1:32pm
Msg #16747

I for one believe that notaries should be formally trained prior to being commissioned. I believe some states do require to pass a test. I couldn't believe how simple it is to be commissioned in Kansas. I think it's dangerous.

Reply by Bobbi in CT on 1/14/05 1:44pm
Msg #16750

It isn't the Notary Public training...

Notaries Public basically serve one simple function:

Identify the signer and signer's "willingness to sign" according to the notarial laws of the state the Notary and signer are in at the time of notarization. Make sure you are not notarizating an incomplete or blank document.
Fill in the blanks ONLY in the notarization block on the form the person signed according to the notarial laws of the state the Notary and signer are in at the time of notarization.
Collect the state law allowed fee, note the transaction in your notary Journal.
Done.

It is the business person that also holds a notary commuission and provides well-intentioned advice and other services that get into trouble.

I have tried for over twenty years to get CT to require notary education. Same State responses: There are no notary problems. If there are any, the notary resigns his or her commission. We (the state) don't have the budget for it. The Notary can read the handbook we (the state) provide with the commission application or call us with a question. (You get one handbook at the time of application. After that you are on your own as to whether any of the laws have changed. I know notaries who are still using their 1980s handbook. It's the only one they have and since the State never mailed them another; it's good enough.)

Reply by Nicole_NCali on 1/14/05 2:13pm
Msg #16759

Re: It isn't the Notary Public training...

There is a thread about trusts and the complexity of them. I know this due to experiencing it first hand. I feel that if someone asks me to notarize the docs that come in the trust, I would be required to, but when it gets to the legal ramifications, I refer the people to a lawyer or to my friend who happens to be a probate lawyer.

When it gets to the ULP of the law, I don't do it. First, I don't receive $250/hour for it and secondly, there are so many ramifications of one simple action, it can get scarey.

Notaries..read your handbook...that is all I can advise and I take my handbook with me to every signing I do, whether it is a loan signing or a simple affidavit.

Reply by sue on 1/14/05 7:50pm
Msg #16803

these type stories always perplex me. how would most notaries even know the different types of vesting? what situation are they in that they would be preparing and typing a deed for signature? I'm not saying I disbelieve the lawyer and I certainly don't disbelieve you repeating what she said but it just makes no sense to me. I am never in a position to even discuss vesting let alone typing up the documents.

Reply by kmnotary_CA on 1/14/05 11:10pm
Msg #16828

Re: Perplexing Stories

Sue,
I am not sure if I am understanding correctly. I, personally have to discuss vesting, but do not type up the escrow papers. I am a Real Estate Agent, and come across many different situations.

The signing I was doing was for a Title Rep, and the Attorney and I both went to her house. They were talking while I was signing, and this is when the comment was made. I was, and still am shocked that any Notary would be so brazen as to give advice. I never, ever give advice on how to vest someones property, let alone anything else.

If I am acting in my Real Estate hat, then I will discuss the different types of vesting, or other things, but tell the clients that they should consult a Lawyer if they are unsure of their needs/wants/tax implications, etc. Many times while in the Notary Hat people ask me questions, and I just tell them I am sorry but I am not allowed to give advice, and they need to have their paperwork done before I can Notarize it.

I learn everyday, and am not afraid to admit it. I pray that I will never be too old to0 learn something, and I still find it scary that some Notaries "appear" to over-step the bounds of our obligations.

Reply by sue on 1/15/05 9:55am
Msg #16860

Re: Perplexing Stories

Holey moley!! I'm still confused (as I so often am). I understand when wearing your RE hat that you might discuss vesting (although in my state, PA, that would be against the law even though I know it's done all the time by realtors). And I understand the context you're talking about where the comment came up. But, as a 'notary', I get a deed in with a loan package and it's already prepared. As a 'regular' notary people show up with a deed to get notarized. I just don't understand how a 'notary' is in the picture before the docs are prepared.

Reply by kmnotary_CA on 1/15/05 10:46am
Msg #16871

Re: Perplexing Stories

Sue,
Now I am confused. I don't know how a Notary would be around when the docs are prepared either, but there are many things I don't understand.

Now we need a better story to try to figure out