Posted by Curious, NY on 1/27/05 3:01am
Msg #18337
Signing Companies and Fees
Since most of us start of doing business with Signing Companies, does anyone know how much money THEY are collecting?
For example, if we are getting paid something around $50-$75 for a closing, how much money is the Signing Company collecting from the people who hired them??
Thanks in advance for any responses....just curious 
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Reply by jojo_MN on 1/27/05 3:12am
Msg #18339
You can check on the HUD settlement statement. A lot of the time it is listed under notary fees. Maybe you don't want to know how much. I did a couple today where they got more than double what I did--and they never even saw the documents! They were shipped to me by the lender or title company and I returned them.
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Reply by Nd_WA on 1/27/05 3:53am
Msg #18346
Notary fee is paid by the borrower. It ranges from $125-250 depend on the type of loan program a borrower chose or qualified for. I negotiate my fee with SS base on who the lender is, the social economic area of the borrower, and my fee has never been below 50% of what a SS get if its shown on the HUD.
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Reply by jojo_MN on 1/27/05 12:07pm
Msg #18414
Most SS don't tell you who the lender is at the time they request the signing. They ask are you available for a signing in Whatevertown, State. Then they ask if you will accept a certain fee for the signing. If low I tell him/her my minimum fee. We don't see the HUD until we have the documents in hand. As far as how much their paid, it is usually much more than what they tell us.
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Reply by Vicki/MD on 1/27/05 12:44pm
Msg #18424
Occasionally I have been successful at renegotiating my signing fee after seeing the HUD statement and noting that my actual fee was quite a bit lower than the HUD statement. This only works with title clients, though. They're much more likely to be fair about it.
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Reply by CarolynCO on 1/28/05 11:09am
Msg #18550
**Most SS don't tell you who the lender is at the time they request the signing.**
Loan/title companies are the SS's accounts. After I've done a couple of signings for the same SS, I find that future signings are generally for the same loan/title company. When called for a signing, I've never felt I had the need to know, and never asked a SS the name of the title/loan company in that initial call.
As far as how much a SS is being paid by the loan/title company, that's also none of my business. As Brenda has posted, I, too, have calculated a fee that is *fair* compensation to me for my time and services. I didn't just pull a figure out of the sky, instead it's based on several different factors -- equipment costs, supplies (paper/toner), vehicle costs, distance, and my time. If a SS is unwilling to negotiate a fee, it might be because they can't -- their costs, expenses and overhead may not allow them an ability to negotiate.
I have regular SS's who call me first on their list because I have proven myself and earned their trust. These are also the same SS's willing to negotiate fees over a SS that I've never worked for. As for the comment made by Curiousity [sic], you are so wrong in thinking *everyone* is leaving SSs behind and going after loan/title companies directly. I have some great SS's that I work for!
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Reply by BrendaTX on 1/28/05 11:42am
Msg #18558
Said Carolyn: "I have some great SS's that I work for!"
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Carolyn: Don't be rude. Please post the names of them and exactly what you charge them for
BASE FEE $
EDOCS $
TRAVEL $
TOTAL $
Also, please post your contacts' names.
And, don't just give the name of the SS. We would also like for you to post
LINK:
FAX #:
ALL PHONE#s:
ADDRESS :
ALL EMAILS YOU HAVE.:
Right away, please. Chop chop.
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Carolyn, Before you throw rotten tomatoes at me. I just kidding!!!!
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Reply by CarolynCO on 1/28/05 12:10pm
Msg #18562
Brenda,
You're safe -- I threw my rotton tomatoes out because pf the pesky (knats or nats ?? sp?) that were taking over the kitchen. I would be more than happy to send some of them your way though!
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Reply by CarolynCO on 1/28/05 12:13pm
Msg #18564
Re: oops! Rotten ...
one of those pesky flying things were on my screen and I didn't notice the different between an "o" and an "e"
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Reply by HisHughness on 1/28/05 12:14pm
Msg #18565
CarolynCO asks:
***(knats or nats ?? sp?)""
It's gnats. You should have gnown that. From gnow on out, remember it, please.
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Reply by CarolynCO on 1/28/05 12:49pm
Msg #18575
I guess that's why I couldn't find the spelling in the dictionary!
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Reply by CarolynCO on 1/28/05 10:04am
Msg #18533
**I did a couple today where they got more than double what I did--and they never even saw the documents!**
This isn't necessarily always correct. I've had occasion where I've had to call the SS because of question or concern (before going to the signing) with a particular document in an overnight package -- and the SS also had the same docs I had. Now whether they were overnighted, e-mailed or faxed to them, they had seen them and had them in front of them.
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Reply by CuriousityKills, NY on 1/27/05 7:20am
Msg #18356
Thanks JoJo,
Guess you're right...shouldn't have asked. I'm guessing that's why no one wants to work for a Signing Company in the long run!!
Thanks again all !!
(No need to post anymore follow-ups/replies, my question has been answered, however please feel free to do so if you'd like!...the comments are more than accepted and appreciated)
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Reply by BrendaTX on 1/27/05 7:49am
Msg #18359
Signing Services Are Not a Bad Thing to me.
IMHO, signing services are here to stay and I have made peace with them--I was not here before they were so I don't know any different. I would rather work a lot for less than to work occasionally for more.
I set my fees across the board for what I can work for and still make a decent profit. Yes...it could be the Wal-mart mentality, but it works for me. And, I don't argue with myself about what I can take a signing for. I KNOW ahead of time what my bottom line is. What an SS makes is none of my business. I don't concern myself with it.
I figure what it costs me to be in business and what each job costs me and I work for what I can work for. Others define a title company price vs. an SS price. However, they are better connected than I am and know more about the business. They get more money per job than I do and I applaud them. I have to do what works for me personally.
I am willing and grateful for a decent slice of the pie over expecting the entire pie. My observation has been that times have changed and I find Texas work-title companies have creating (or contracted with) a signing agency.
I am sure others will heartily disagree with me, and that's ok.
I know what I can work for and stay afloat and gain ground. Like I have noted to others in personal emails...when this first started being an industry, it was like color tvs. It cost a fortune to buy one. However, with new technology and greater availability, times changed and you can buy a small color tv for $69.00 or less.
With the global connectivity of the internet, times have changed in this industry. SSs have wedged in as a middle man and they are here to stay. Title companies and lenders have the option of using them and it takes a great deal of time in hunting qualified notaries off of their hands.
I am glad to work for good signing services and welcome their calls. When I get a good SS calling regularly, I am glad to hear from them.
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Reply by Clay TX. on 1/27/05 9:52am
Msg #18379
Great post Brenda! nm
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Reply by HDW on 1/27/05 11:53am
Msg #18400
Re: Signing Services Are Not a Bad Thing to me.
"I am glad to work for good signing services and welcome their calls. When I get a good SS calling regularly, I am glad to hear from them."
My two cents... I am an employee of a SS. They fax my work to me, then email, Fed Ex or UPS the doc's to the borrower or me. They have provided all equipment; fax machine, copier HP Laser Jet (two trays), and all supplies. I pay for nothing. They withhold my taxes, but I cover my mileage and turn it in on my income tax. The work is consistent, profitable and all I do is receive the doc's, show up and have the borrowers sign, fax back the stamped copies to my company, they approve and then I drop the doc's after any corrections that need to be addressed...if any… (a good check and balance system). I have a protected territory with them and get all the work within my area (they have quite a few employees in certain states). They are flexible enough that they work around my schedule and personal life. I love it. Sorry if that offends any one, but I love this. Gives me allot of organized freedom to compliment and pursue other ventures. With the check and balance system and my knowledge of the profession mistakes are rare. Love it. They are great people to work for. Thanks
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Reply by PAW_Fl on 1/27/05 1:15pm
Msg #18431
Re: Signing Services Are Not a Bad Thing to me.
Is this a local Tennessee company or a national service? (Feel free to reply to my email address - [e-mail address] - if you wish.)
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Reply by Stephanie/CA on 1/27/05 11:56am
Msg #18405
Re: Signing Services...On the same page with Brenda here.
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Reply by jojo_MN on 1/27/05 12:13pm
Msg #18417
Re: Signing Services Are Not a Bad Thing to me.
I agree. I work for some wonderful signing services. I was just replying to a question posted.
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Reply by BrendaTX on 1/27/05 12:35pm
Msg #18423
Signing Services Not Bad - Diatribe II
JoJo - I was responding to
>>>>"I'm guessing that's why no one wants to work for a Signing Company in the long run!!" posted above mine.<<<<
The reason I posted the diatribe I did is because that's INCORRECT thinking in my way of viewing our jobs. Now, readers can believe I am off my rocker if you wish, but as a self-employed person capitalizing on the internet's laser fast evolvement, my experience has taught me a lesson: ADAPT, RE-ADAPT, and ADAPT yet again.
There is a lot of confusion on the part of new NSAs who don't realize that they are not going to be able to contact a slew of title companies and lenders and get great responses once they are "experienced."
My feeling is that the ones who are already working in this capacity may continue to see premium fees, but those that are new need should realize they are probably making about what they are going to make right now and should figure out if $50-$75 is enough to work for.
If it is not, I doubt it's going to skyrocket upward. Develop a price you can work for, slowly establish a good group of clients and cherish them--keep them happy and find more like them.
It's not going to get a whole lot better....in my very humble opinion...but what do I know. I am just trying to be realistic given the expanding base of available notaries. If I find that a flood of new NSAs eventually makes it where I cannot work for what I think I have to make in order to profit, then I will develop another avenue of income. I'll adapt. That's the message.
Lenders and Title Companies are still paying the same amount they were for notary services by contracting with signing services to find notaries for them. Due to SSs, it takes them less time to find a notary and to get the paperwork out the door and back into their hands completed.
Since the internet has connected vendor services with customers globally, this was bound to happen that signing services would emerge as a collector and qualifier of notary services for the ultimate end user.
All industries are changing in quantum leaps of progress or recession. Dotcoms have boomed and busted. So will NSAs that don't adapt...or at least that's my limited way of seeing this which I base on my experience.
I used to sell on eBay quite a bit. I could go garage sale slumming for two days and make a $1000 bucks in a heartbeat. No more.
Back then, you could sell crap sandwiches for a premium price. Same goes for Amazon.com. I made a killing off of selling Textbooks for awhile. But, as the internet grew, so did the supply of all things. One has to adjust...new NSAs need to realize that they will likely never see the fees they think they will if they bought into ads that promised riches.
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Reply by calipat/ca on 1/27/05 1:20pm
Msg #18432
Brenda...I totally agree with you!! Great post!!
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Reply by CharlotteTX on 1/27/05 10:56am
Msg #18388
Well said Brenda, same goes for here.
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