Posted by Shane_IN on 1/15/05 12:30pm
Msg #16883
This forum....
Okay, I'm fairly new on this forum, and luckily I've signed my share of docs so that I don't have to ask any questions usually, unless either its something odd, or I just forgot something stupid, which we all do.
The reason why I say I am lucky, because, I notice a trend on this forum, that really just irks me from time to time. Often times I see a new, obviously enthusiastic person to this business, come on here and ask for help, or direction on one thing, or often times a few things....and instead of getting the help they request, they get berated, belittled, and just plain made fun of.
Why? What purpose is it serving? They are asking for help. If you don't wanna help, don't post. If you think they are complete morons, don't post. If you actually want to help someone succeed, take the time to answer their questions....
Sure they could have done a search and found most of their answers....maybe they did and overlooked it. The post you type telling them to search the forums, would take just as much time as it took to answer their questions.
Sometimes this message board reminds me of a combination of high school cliques, and old school marms, and its just disappointing.
I don't care how many signings any of us have done, or how long we've been in the business, or frankly how knowledgeable we are. Sometime seems to be often overlooked, and thats professional courtesy. Every single one of us was there at one point in time, and maybe some of us were more resourceful than others in finding the answers, or getting prepared, but EVERYONE asks for help in the beginning.
Instead of a thread cluttered with junk replies, we could keep this place more productive, with replies that actual answer the problems presented.
This is just my on personal view, and maybe I'm overstepping my bounds, and I apologize if I offend any of you with this post. But, I'd like to see a nation of informed "helped" signing agents/notaries running around, instead of people that get frustrated with it, and just start doing it wrong because noone would help them.
Just my $1.02.
| Reply by Shane_IN on 1/15/05 12:34pm
Msg #16885
I'll append to this post, by saying it is completely the responsibility of the new signing agent to get the proper training before attempting to close a loan.
I'm not saying they shouldn't take that into their own hands, they should.... but if they encounter help, or can't understand something....we should be willing to assist.
| Reply by closingrpo on 1/15/05 1:01pm
Msg #16886
I Agree.
| Reply by Roger/OH on 1/15/05 1:05pm
Msg #16887
Shane...
Yours is a legitimate question, and you're not overstepping any boundaries. The best reply to you is illustrated by the post just a few threads below entitled "Help" by, of course, the ever-popular Anonymous. Whether real or a joke (and there are enough similar ones that aren't joking), it serves an as excellent example of why some are, as you put it, "berated, belittled, or just plain made fun of". That post is a good composite of many things that are highly annoying from many of the newer posters, who often come to the boards exhibiting some sense of entitlement because they completed "a notary course". Their attitude is, "I passed the test, now pay me big $$ immediately" because as Anonymous noted, I'm "ready for anything they throw at me" (this from someone who has yet to do their FIRST signing, and doesn't know the difference between an ack and a jurat). This person and those like him/her do not deserve the title of Notary Public. They only became a notary because that step was necessary to become a signing agent, and have no concept of the history (notaries go back over two thousand years), sanctity, or integrity associated with this public office.
We were all new once, and most of us on here do help frequently with legitimate questions and situations. However, we have earned the right to expect some semblance of professionalism from those who would share our title. Those that explode onto the board asking BASIC notarial questions that someone holding the title of Notary Public should be reasonably expected to know show disrespect to the office, as well as the state they are supposed to be representing and the public they serve. Do the research instead of coming here and appearing unprofessional, and certainly before you take on the huge responsibility of someone's home loan into your hands. If you don't know the difference between an ack and a jurat, then you have not earned the title of Notary Public in any state. You expect the mechanic who works on your brakes to know what he/she is doing, and they're not turned loose upon customers until they do. The public, lenders and your fellow notaries expect a similar standard of professionalism from us.
| Reply by pan/nd on 1/15/05 1:19pm
Msg #16888
Re: Shane...
Amen, Roger!
| Reply by Becky on 1/15/05 1:30pm
Msg #16891
Re: Shane...
I agree. I agree that notaries should take it upon themselves to educate themselves and do their own research. It is aggrevating to see new notaries asking basic questions instead of pulling out their handbook and finding the answer there. Yes, we do expect notaries, who are public officials, to have **semblance of professionalism [and intelligence] **
Nonetheless, I agree with Shane 100%. There is no need to publicly **berate, belittle and make fun of** anyone. This itself is not a professional behavior. Do as I say but not as I do?
| Reply by CarolynCO on 1/15/05 1:44pm
Msg #16893
Re: BRAVO Roger nm
| Reply by Shane_IN on 1/15/05 1:50pm
Msg #16895
Re: Shane...
I do agree 100% that people that it upon themselves to pursue this course of work, get the proper training, materials and read it. Those that come on here and ask a million questions that should be easily discovered in readily available training material, are doing a disservice to themselves.
This isn't a job that you'll aquire instant knowledge on everything. And, as everyone found when they were in school, everyone learns differently, so one thing that is plain as day to me, may be be Einstein's theory of general relativity to another. Its these instances where we, as the professionals in the business, should help to clarify any misunderstandings.
For an avid reader of these boards however, a million reply about "look it up", "reread the message boards", "its in your manual", etc etc etc.... Those replies, didn't help them understand what to do, and in the same time, it cluttered the message board for those people who are looking for intelligent conversation, or perhaps a particular answer to something. Scrolling thru all of the messages that have been posted on this board, imagine how much shorter it would have been, if people got a 1 or 2 reply answer to their questions, instead of 10 people poking fun or telling them to do the research themselves?
Again, I don't think its our responsibility to help new people. But it should be common courtesy to chose to either help them, or ignore them.
| Reply by CarolynCO on 1/15/05 2:10pm
Msg #16901
Re: Shane...
Let's put it another way. You are a borrower refinancing a half a million dollar house. As a borrower, would you feel comfortable with, not only a signing agent that has never even seen a loan document before, let alone someone who has never been a commissioned notary or even notarized one piece of paper and doesn't know the difference between a jurat and an acknowledgement?
Yes, we've all been new. I just hope that the influx of posters since January 1 are all carrying loads of E&O insurance, because when it comes down to it, our tactless replies to lazy posts will be nothing compared to the repercussions from the SS and title/loan companies when a signing goes south.
Addtionally, as has been pointed in many times in the past -- state notary laws are all different. The signing agent should be directing specific notary questions to their Secretary of State, or to the signing service that hired them, or directly to the loan/title company.
| Reply by Joan-OH on 1/15/05 5:45pm
Msg #16921
Re: Shane...
"Scrolling thru all of the messages that have been posted on this board, imagine how much shorter it would have been, if people got a 1 or 2 reply answer to their questions, instead of 10 people poking fun or telling them to do the research themselves?"
My personal feeling is no one should do their FIRST signing until they have read every message in every message board out there AND have taken a signing agent course whether it be NNA, Signing Registry, Point & Sign, etc. It is just highly irresponsible to just get your notary commission and start out by doing signings.
In Ohio (and I suspect most states), you take the test and wait 3-4 weeks for your commission, then have to wait for your stamp to be ordered. I spent those weeks reading and studying and then reading and studying more. My first 2 signings were edocs from Transcontinental....not easy signings with 28 pages of junk docs that no training manual ever goes over. But at least I knew the difference between an acknowledgement & jurat, I knew what the dower docs were, I knew what the HUD, Note, RTC, Mortgage & TIL were. I was a nervous wreck, but my very first borrower said to me "you must be really busy these days!" obviously thinking I had been doing this for some time.
Just something to think over. There is a TON of information and informal training in the archives of these boards. READ, READ, READ!
Joan-OH
| Reply by Anonymous on 1/15/05 7:43pm
Msg #16930
Shane, Shane, Shane....You're wasting your time
Shane, I think you can talk till you're blue in the face, but people are just not getting the message. They think if people aren't smart enough we should tell them in their face that they are just plain lazy and stupid. I'm sure these "professionals" do not bark at everyone outside this forum the way they do here. Perhaps deep down inside, there is a resentment towards the new NSAs. What do you think?
| Reply by Jon on 1/16/05 12:13am
Msg #16955
Re: Shane, Shane, Shane....You're wasting your time
You are correct. We highly resent the lazy, you owe me mentality that is displayed by those who only care about the money.
Re-read Roger's post and maybe YOU will get the message.
| Reply by CaliNotary on 1/16/05 12:26am
Msg #16956
Re: Shane, Shane, Shane....You're wasting your time
Actually, I'm pretty much the same in real life as I am in here. I say what's on my mind.
| Reply by HisHughness on 1/16/05 12:40am
Msg #16957
Re: Shane, Shane, Shane....You're wasting your time
CaliNotary reports:
***Actually, I'm pretty much the same in real life as I am in here. I say what's on my mind.***
Now, of all the scary talk we have seen here of late, that is the scariest of all.
| Reply by CaliNotary on 1/16/05 2:01pm
Msg #16983
Re: Shane, Shane, Shane....You're wasting your time
Hee. I'll have you know that some people find me quite charming and refreshing. And some just think I'm an a**hole. I'm kinda like Cher that way.
| Reply by jfcwilliams on 1/15/05 1:59pm
Msg #16896
Thanks! I said the same thing. It's sad when people for get where they came from.
| Reply by Brendakhan/FL on 1/15/05 2:54pm
Msg #16908
This forum has been very interesting to say the least to read. I have always found it to be both educating and pathetic as to the posts that have come up here.
If your a Notary you must have the "basic" notary skills. period. To come on here and ask basic questions is anoying to most that read here.
If you are a signing agent, certified or not, you must know what the standard forms are in a package of docs and be able to execute them correctly.
Both of these professions must have high standards of ethics.
Now if you do not possess these skills, then it is your own personal responsibiliy to learn them on your own. We are all independant contractors and therefore are not all created equal or possess the same knowledge.
I enjoy reading and posting on this forum and appreciate and respect the knowledgable posters. BK-FL
| Reply by kmnotary_CA on 1/15/05 10:22pm
Msg #16941
Re: This Forums Posters Glenda, Brenda, Hugh......
I would just like to say I read almost every post, good or bad, and answer, or write just a few times.
I have found many of the people here to be both knowlegable, humorous, and witty. I have my favorites, but enjoy all the posts, except the ones that tell the older members how to behave. Sounds like whining to me.
My very first post, after reading this board for months was when I had unsuccessfully tried to open e-docs with swiftview. I remember very clearly Glenda from NV (and sorry I forgot the others) and how her advice saved a signing for me.
My point is this: Yes, we were all new, and probably all want to do a good job, but as Hugh and others keep pointing out, do not waste everyones time asking simple questions you can figure out yourselves.
| Reply by Shane_IN on 1/16/05 4:46pm
Msg #16998
Re: This Forums Posters Glenda, Brenda, Hugh......
Well, I'm sorry that you feel that I was whining on my post.
I'm not here to tell older members of this board how to behave. Actually, I also feel, they have no right to tell anyone how I or any other member of this board can behave, unless they are moderator, administrator of the site, etc.... I just fall back to the old saying, "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all".
If you don't want to help someone because you feel they are stupid, just skip the thread and move on to the next constructive post.
I personally am new to this board, I've been a member only for a month or 2? I'm not even sure. However, I'm experienced in the profession, and am far from a newbie. I help people when I can, and if I think its a joke, or I think its something they should know from their class material, then I just don't reply.
| Reply by CaliNotary on 1/16/05 5:26pm
Msg #17003
Re: This Forums Posters Glenda, Brenda, Hugh......
"I'm not here to tell older members of this board how to behave"
"If you don't want to help someone because you feel they are stupid, just skip the thread and move on to the next constructive post."
Hmmm, that sounds like telling us how to behave to me!
| Reply by Shane_IN on 1/16/05 6:44pm
Msg #17012
Thats just splitting hairs..Hope u got what i meant. n/m
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