Posted by kcNot_KS on 1/4/05 8:46pm
Msg #15436

Two signatories, each reside in a different state

Went to a signing today. EDocs received right before schedule appointment. Glanced through, saw two names on DOT, ok...no one told me there were two people. So, I figure 2nd name is husband, but a non-borrower. Arrived at borrowers house and began the process. I asked for IDs and was shocked when the wife said that second name on DOT is her brother who lives in VA. (We are in KS). Surely, I thought, someone should have told me about this, I only received 6 emails and 3 faxes from the title company today on this loan. Not to mention the 5 phone conversations through out the day. She says that her mortgage broker knew. Called my client but office closed so I contacted the LO who preceded to tell me that the documents will be sent overnight to VA for her brother to sign. Ok fine, ended call. I'm sure he did not presume that I would leave the brother's name on the document for me to notorize...or did he? Brother's name is entered in all the acknowledgement statements and of course I intended to cross out his name since I am not witnessing his signature. But we didn't get that far. Loan was suppose to be for 15 yrs, but docs were prepared for 30 yrs. So, resigning with new docs rescheduled for tomorrow.

My question, shouldn't Lender have prepared two sets of documents, one sent directly to VA and one to KS (each one with the appropriate name for each notary to sign)? Should I request lender to correct the acknowledgements before emailing new docs tomorrow?

Reply by Kimberly Crowe on 1/4/05 9:03pm
Msg #15438

There should only be one set of documents but two acknowledgements. The recission period would begin the day the last person signed. So if the sister signed on Friday and her brother didn't sign until the following Monday, then the loan wouldn't disburse until the next Friday.

Reply by Lee/AR on 1/4/05 9:19pm
Msg #15440

This is called a 'split signing'. Generally, one notary 'signs' one borrower and an envelope is provided to overnight the SAME docs to a 2nd notary in another state/location, who 'signs' the 2nd borrower and overnights the docs to Title/Lender as instructed. I've been on both ends of these and (again, generally) the 2nd notary has to provide 'loose acknowledgements' for the 2nd borrower. There should be 2 sets of the RTC in the package...one for each borrower... as the RTC date WILL BE different for each borrower. In the example you gave, sounds to me like someone (NOT YOU) dropped the ball. Hope this helps.

Reply by kcNot_KS on 1/4/05 10:09pm
Msg #15442

I should cross out brother's name in both areas, right? On the document itself as well as in the acknowledgement? Or should I only cross out his name in the acknowledgement?

Reply by Paul_IL on 1/4/05 11:10pm
Msg #15454

On the acknowledgement only!

Reply by Becca/FL on 1/4/05 11:16pm
Msg #15456

Do not alter the document. In other words, do NOT cross out the brother's name on the
doc(s). Only ack. the one that is before you. So, cross out the brother's name, if it is pre-printed on the ack. and mark "only" re: the sister.

Reply by CaliNotary on 1/5/05 2:39am
Msg #15467

Just out of curiosity, what is making you think that it's your responsiblity to alter the actual documents? You do know our job as notaries is to only witness signatures and verify identity?

Reply by Ted_MI on 1/5/05 11:44am
Msg #15499

Kimberly,

Re: the rescission, I don't believe that the period begins the day the last person signed. It is different for each of the two people (assuming they signed on different days). This is not really my opinion. Paul from Florida posted a very comprehensive, definitive response to this issue somewhat earlier, and I am basing my statements on that. You should try to check it out. I printed it out, but unfortunately I don't have it with me, or I would give you more info.

Reply by PAW Notary Services on 1/5/05 12:01pm
Msg #15502

According to Reg Z, each signer has their own RTC, thus their own expiration date. However, let's be practical. If signer "A" has an expiration date of 1/4 and signer "B" has an expiration date of 1/5, then the loan can be canceled up to midnight of 1/5. But, **technically**, signer "A" can't cancel after midnight on the fourth. So, if signer "A" canceled the loan on the fifth, the lender **technically** could say that the cancellation was invalid because their RTC had expired.

Reply by Kimberly Crowe on 1/5/05 2:57pm
Msg #15520

You're right, two different cancel dates....I was thinking of the funding date. (Title company thinking)

Reply by kcNot on 1/6/05 3:29am
Msg #15585

Cali asks "Just out of curiosity, what is making you think that it's your responsiblity to alter the actual documents? You do know our job as notaries is to only witness signatures and verify identity?"

If I left the VA owner's name on the document, his signature could be inserted after the fact.

Reply by PAW Notary Services on 1/6/05 7:10am
Msg #15588

The point that Cali was trying to make is that the ONLY part of a document that you are authorized to modify is the notary certificate. You should never change the document itself, which includes never removing a name from the signature lines. Simply state, in your certificate, that, " so-n-so -ONLY- appeared before me ", crossing out the name of the person who was NOT there, adding the word ONLY, and initialing the change. Then, the document remains intact and the certificate reflects exactly what you want it to.

Reply by kcNot on 1/6/05 9:57am
Msg #15593

PAW - So this leads me to ask another question. What do you do when the preprinted notarial wording is insufficient? For instance, on this same loan, on the Owners Affidavit - after the signatures of both owners, is the notarial wording:

Sworn and subscribed before me on this _______ day of ____________, 20____.

My commission expires:

___________________________
Notary Public
(sign & print).

If I signed and sealed this as is, it could appear as if brother in VA was present before me if he enters his signature afterwards on the document. So I added "by ___________________" after the date in the notarial wording. Did I do the right thing? I didn't alter the document but corrected the notarial wording to comply with my SOS.

Next question, a general one. When the notarial wording is on a page by itself, like on page 15 of 15 of the mortgage, should I consider this like a "loose certificate"? Should I write on the last page the name of the document it is attached to and emboss pp. 14 & 15 together? I've come accross these a few times. It didn't bother me as much where there are sequential page numbers but not always. Should I get a rubber stamp made up that says "Title or Type of Document : _________________________________. Signers : ___________________ " etc? so that it can be stamped on pages when this occurs.

Reply by PAW Notary Services on 1/6/05 1:28pm
Msg #15613

>>> What do you do when the preprinted notarial wording is insufficient? <<<

You have two options: (1) modify the wording so it conforms to your state requirements; or (2) cross it out and attach a loose certificate that conforms to you state requirements.

Any changes you make in the certificate, only need to be intialed by the notary, not the signers. The certificate is "your domain".


>>> When the notarial wording is on a page by itself, like on page 15 of 15 of the mortgage, should I consider this like a "loose certificate"? Should I write on the last page the name of the document it is attached to and emboss pp. 14 & 15 together? <<<

Typically, espcially with mortgages, the notary page is duly marked as being page 15 of 15 and has an appropriate annotation on the bottom as to which doc set it belongs. Other documents, or loose attachments, you may want to add identifying characteristics so that the certificate cannot be attached to any other page. All my loose acknowledgements have the following printed on the bottom of each one:

----------------------------------------------------------- Optional -----------------------------------------------------------
Though the information below is not required by law, it may prove valuable to persons relying on the document
and could prevent fraudulent removal and reattachment of this form to another document.

Description of Attached Document
Title of Document:_______________________________________________________________
Document Date:___________________________ Number of Pages: ___________
Signer(s) Other Than Named Above:_________________________________________________
Capacity(ies) Claimed by Signer
[ ] Individual
[ ] Corporate Officer – Title(s): ______________________________________________________
[ ] Attorney in Fact
[ ] Trustee
[ ] Guardian or Conservator
[ ] Other:_______________________________________________________________________