Posted by Lori/California on 1/4/05 11:13am
Msg #15398
What would you do?
Approx. one month ago I accepted a signing by accident from a Title Co. I have put on my no no list. The reason is... they want docs back dated, ack. done without seeing the borrower, ect. When I realized I had done I called them back to cancel. They wanted to know why and I let them know. The EO was ill and pleaded with me to do it. I did and what a mistake.
I was 1 hour away from home and this was an edoc file and the signing was over an hour away from home. In the mean time I took another signing for a loan very close to home the only thing was the package was in the town where I was going to sign for the Title Company that I should have not taken the signing from. I said that I would be in the area and would pick up the docs.
Once I was 1/2 hour away from home the no no Title Company called and said, "Borrower X did let you know that docs need to be back dated to the 18th!" I was quite PO'd and let her know this was against the law and that I would not do it. The EO was also mad because she would back date and not feeling well she would have to do the signing. I informed her that I expected full fee on this loan.
I did call their operations mgr. as this has happened too many times. I stated I expected full fee as I also turned down another signing to do this one plus continue my hour drive to pick up docs to turn around to come back close to home to do the next signing.
As of today I received one check from them for $50 the edoc fee. I will pursue the full fee. Oh, and the docs were dated 11-19, the day of signing was the 22nd, and they wanted them back dated to the 18th!
Just wonder what others would do.....
| Reply by BrendaTX on 1/4/05 11:20am
Msg #15400
I don't mean to make more work for you, but what do you mean>>done without seeing the borrower, ect. <<?
The borrower was not going to sign in front of you AND you were asked to backdate?
If that's what you were asked to do, I would forget chasing the fee and wash my hands of it.
If you already made a notary mistake ... what's done is done, and there is not much you cannot do much about it, however, IF this type of thing happened, I might even spend a little to go talk to a lawyer to find out what I need to do to fix it, or if I could.
Really and truly, I am not trying to scare you, but this IS actually how I would handle this mistake IF it were me and I did not have the borrowers appear. It's pretty serious.
Maybe I am just not understanding what you posted.
| Reply by Jon on 1/4/05 12:20pm
Msg #15402
Report them to the SOS office.
CA Gov Code Sec 8225 states:
"Improper notarial acts, solicitation, coercion or influence of performance; misdemeanor
Any person who solicits, coerces, or in any manner influences a notary public to perform an improper notarial act knowing such act to be an improper notarial act shall be guilty of a misdemeanor."
CA Gov Code Sec 8228 states:
"Enforcement of chapter; examination of notarial books, records, etc
The Secretary of State may enforce the provisions of this chapter through the examination of a notary public's books, records, letters, contracts, and other pertinent documents relating to the official acts of the notary public."
Also, while we are on CA law, the next time you get a request for backdating you can tell them that you are saving them $75,000 as well as possible additional punishment. Read Ca Penal Code Sec 115.5 for further info.
Have fun reporting and let us know what happens.
| Reply by BrendaTX on 1/4/05 12:53pm
Msg #15403
Jon's right on target here. I am glad to see her got over the fear or posting  .
It's not a light matter. Basically, what this type of request is doing is eradicating the position of the notary's interface at a certain date and time with the signer.
If there were no need for the notary function, why is the notary public still around in our society.
I think it's time we all started making a big deal out of back date requests or wrongly requested things. Maybe we need to form an informal committee of notaries who shudder at this kind of thing to help other notaries figure out how to report it.
I am not sure of how to get it noticed and heard in Texas. Food for thought.
| Reply by Lori/California on 1/4/05 3:39pm
Msg #15418
Brenda,
I am sorry, it looks like I gave to much info. I have never done the acts they requested, I was just informing of what they requested in the past of me this is why they were on my no no list.
I never did the signing so I personally never backdated. It was the EO who ended up signing her and backdating.
No notary mistakes made. I take too much pride in who I am and what I do.
Thank you for responding as I admire not only the information you post but you integrity as well!
| Reply by BrendaTX on 1/4/05 4:50pm
Msg #15422
**Re: What would you do? Posted by Lori/California on 1/4/05 3:39pm
Brenda, I am sorry, it looks like I gave to much info. I have never done the acts they requested, I was just informing of what they requested in the past of me this is why they were on my no no list. I never did the signing so I personally never backdated. It was the EO who ended up signing her and backdating. No notary mistakes made. I take too much pride in who I am and what I do. Thank you for responding as I admire not only the information you post but you integrity as well!**
--------------------
Greatttt!
Perhaps our interchange, and my knee jerk reaction will validate the seriousness of the offenses.
As far as my integrity...while I do believe in doing the right thing at the right time, I make mistakes, as well. Everyone does, but you just have to own up to them and get on down the road.
One big mistake that I am glad I did not make was in 1997 when a relative asked me to back date and notarize her mother's signature on a will.
The poor woman did not know who she was much less how to sign her name. I upset the relative, plus others. Well...as usual, folks like them don't like to be told they are wrong about anything, and I have since made family votes against the tide and believe me, if they could use it to their advantage that I notarized the relative's will under those circumstances, they'd take the ball and run straight to the probate judge with it. But, they cannot because I did not do it. They just hope I don't decide to find out exactly what did happen in that situation.
I have had others request that I do incorrect notarizations but I won't. Being lawful and keeping my commission is too precious to me.
Doing the right thing, at the right time will always serve you well.
| Reply by CaliNotary on 1/4/05 3:18pm
Msg #15416
I'd say you should let it go. You got the edoc fee, they've already shown themselves to be a company that's deviod of ethics so they won't care in the least about not paying you. Consider it a cheap lesson learned. Always trust your instincts.
I'd also second the motion that you report them to the Secretary of State. Maybe make one more phone call about your fee and inform them that you'll be doing this. Then do it whether or not you get paid from them.
| Reply by Deb_CA on 1/4/05 5:09pm
Msg #15423
email address for CA SOS
Lori,
I agree with the others that we need to be very proactive about reporting illegal requests like this.
In my experience the CA SOS reponds much more quickly to email than snail mail. His address is:
[e-mail address]
| Reply by JanetK/CA on 1/4/05 10:41pm
Msg #15444
Proactive...
I agree. I think we all also should use every opportunity to educate others as to the seriousness of this act. Instead of telling people that it is against the law, whenever the subject comes up I've started telling people that requesting docs be backdated is a "criminal offense" with serious consequences. And I'm getting different responses. It's funny how people don't much care if I can get in trouble, but putting themselves at risk is a whole other ballgame!! ;>)
| Reply by CaliNotary on 1/5/05 2:58am
Msg #15469
Re: Proactive...
I think we should all memorize the statute mentioned earlier in this thread:
CA Gov Code Sec 8225 states:
"Improper notarial acts, solicitation, coercion or influence of performance; misdemeanor
Any person who solicits, coerces, or in any manner influences a notary public to perform an improper notarial act knowing such act to be an improper notarial act shall be guilty of a misdemeanor."
I don't get solicited for this kind of stuff very often, but I'm going to do my darndest to remember this so I can quote it the next time it happens. The response should be interesting. I wish this had been posted yesterday when a signing service was annoyed with me because I wouldn't blindly send off an all purpose acknowledgement to a title company who lost the one that was included in the documents 2 weeks ago.
| Reply by JanetK/CA on 1/6/05 1:26am
Msg #15583
Re: Proactive...
I think I'll flag the page in the Notary Handbook I keep with my notary supplies... (at least until I know it by heart!) ;>)
| Reply by Simone E. Lewis on 1/4/05 10:51pm
Msg #15446
With all that said, What was the name of the Title company?
| Reply by Lori/California on 1/6/05 10:28am
Msg #15599
I hope I do not go down for this..... Alliance Title. Sorry it took so long to post!
| Reply by BrendaTX on 1/6/05 1:27pm
Msg #15612
**I hope I do not go down for this..... Alliance Title. Sorry it took so long to post!**
Lori, Thanks for sharing this. However, when you don't want to list a contact's company and name, tell those who are interested to email you. It's nice of you to share, but if you feel uncomfortable, just share the info privately.
| Reply by Lori/California on 1/6/05 9:30pm
Msg #15659
Brenda,
Thanks for the good info!
| Reply by Simone E. Lewis on 1/7/05 11:43pm
Msg #15801
Thanks, Lori. I appreciated the e-mail.
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