Posted by Anonymous on 1/14/05 5:01pm
Msg #16779

confused

I'm confused!!!!! What is the difference between a jurat and a acknowledgement? It has been explained to me but not very clearly.

Reply by Gerry/VT on 1/14/05 5:20pm
Msg #16781

Acknowledgement: The signer acknowledges, in front of the notary, that the document was signed of the signers own free will. The notary then completes an acknowledgement certificate to provide a written record that the signature was acknowledged.

Jurat: A person orally takes an oath or affirmaton before a notary. The notary writes a jurat to provide a written record of the oath or affirmation.

Reply by HisHughness on 1/14/05 5:29pm
Msg #16782

Anonymous queries:

***I'm confused!!!!! What is the difference between a jurat and a acknowledgement? It has been explained to me but not very clearly.***

I think if I was a lender or title company reading this board today, I would immediately contact my state legislators and urge them to initiate legislation to 1) require a full-scale training course for notaries; and 2) by statute prohibit anyone except an attorney from closing real estate loans. The thought of putting a half-million dollar transaction in the hands of someone who doesn't know the difference between an acknowledgement and a jurat is truly scary.

It's one thing for us to say that the screwups by neophytes means that veterans will be needed to straighten things out. I fear, though, that the result instead will be to restrict the closings business to people who do have several years of training and who pass a rigorous exam -- in other words, lawyers.

Reply by Notary_Girl on 1/14/05 7:03pm
Msg #16791

And tell me Sir How do you know at what capacity the "Anonymous" poster is that is asking this question to justify your "BIG" answer...

Reply by Anonymous on 1/14/05 7:09pm
Msg #16794

I think that some of us need an attitude check. Not you Notary_Girl. I appreciate the fact that you are not rude like others.

Reply by maureen/nh on 1/14/05 7:18pm
Msg #16799

Notary-girl is implying that perhaps you are not a notary and are answering the question for general knowledge. Is this so?

Reply by Jolene Lien on 1/14/05 7:56pm
Msg #16807

I agree with Hugh that all notaries that are closing loans SHOULD be trained; however, don't punish the hardworking notaries that do get the training and work hard for our fees by requiring only attorneys to do closings. I have completed well over 400 loan signings and take great pride in knowing every document I work with and if I don't understand it, I make sure to contact the lender or title company to clarify the correct procedure if I'm not 100% sure.

Reply by Notary_Girl on 1/14/05 8:35pm
Msg #16813

I agree with your thinking ;0)

Reply by CarolynCO on 1/15/05 6:28am
Msg #16850

**I make sure to contact the lender or title company to clarify the correct procedure if I'm not 100% sure.**

You mean that you don't post your procedural questions here first? I'm just shocked. <g>

Reply by Notary_Girl on 1/14/05 8:34pm
Msg #16812

I am not implying anything. I am wondering how Hugh knows his/her capacity....

Reply by HisHughness on 1/14/05 11:13pm
Msg #16829

Notary_Girl temporizes:

***I am not implying anything. I am wondering how Hugh knows his/her capacity....***

I judged his capacity by the question. It seemed obvious to me, from the vapidity of the question, that he was about three beers beyond his capacity.

Reply by CaliNotary on 1/14/05 8:04pm
Msg #16809

You said that there are no stupid questions. Yet here you are, asking a very stupid question to Hugh.

Why would a non-notary be asking this question or reading this board? This is a discussion board for notaries, the assumption is that we are all notaries unless we specify otherwise.

Reply by Notary_Girl on 1/14/05 8:40pm
Msg #16814

why wouldn't a non-notary read or ask the question on THIS board... this message board is just that a message board and nothing really special that only NOTARIES should read or ask questions... I go to other boards on various topics to find answers to questions all the time... I am not sure why you are jumping at me and calling me stupid CaliNotary... I am wondering HOW he knows his/her capacity to answer as he did... I think asking as much as one can is a good thing...

Reply by pan/nd on 1/14/05 9:44pm
Msg #16820

Re: confused

Reply by pan/nd on 1/14/05 10:17pm
Msg #16825

notary-girl,

Calinotary is not calling you stupid...he's saying your question is...there's a big difference.

Both calinotary and hishughness know their stuff.

They are most likely, like others notaries who know their stuff and frequent this board, a bit irked that some newcomers seem to want things handed to them on a silver platter.

There are many newbies who come on this board and other boards and ask questions which have been answered 243,000 times before.

Many times their questions indicate they have the notary stamp but nothing in the way of knowledge behind it.

True, both calinotary and his hughness could put their frustrations about this in a softer way.
But, hey, they don't mince words when it comes to basic notary knowledge. They're tired of repeat questions on the basics. And, I'm afraid, they're right on.

Look, it's not the newbies fault that they didn't get training or what they did get was minimal.
But, they should take some initiative on their own and not expect board posters to do their training on the most basic of notary precepts.

Yogi Berra said, "You can observe a lot by just watching."

You can get a wealth of knowledge about notary proceedure simply by reading posts on this board and others.

I came up thru the ranks. However, until I had some idea of what this was all about and how it all hooked together..I kept off the boards.

But, you say, "It's a public board." That it is. But the sword cuts both ways.

Don't complain if it gets "hot" at times over "basic knowledge issues."

Reply by Becca/FL on 1/14/05 10:45pm
Msg #16826

Thank you, Pan!

You said what many of have been thinking.

I am amazed at some of the questions I've seen posted here in the last few weeks. I mean, C'mon people! Hugh & Cali said it best - Scary!

I can't beleive some of these folks are actually out there closing loans not knowing the diference between a Ack. & a Jurat, not knowing that you use a State ID/DL to identify signers AND that an Assignment is NOT for the borrower to sign. SCARY! I can't help but feel bad for the borrowers that have their very important loan closing facillitated by a Notary that does not know what they are doing.

I'm a "fly by the seat of my pants" type but, would never even think about starting a new job or venture without first doing the research and leaning the basics.

Thanks NNA, you're doing a fine job cranking out new Notary professionals.

Reply by Roger/OH on 1/15/05 12:14am
Msg #16834

Notary Girl...

I would recommend you read message # 12438; I think it'll help you understand some of the frustration that comes out when questions like that are asked. A notary that does not know the difference between an ack and a jurat is not worthy to have the title of Notary Public after his/her name in ANY state, and many of us grow weary of those who come on the boards expecting free rides without doing even the most basic efforts of research. Again, just read that message and try to understand.

Reply by CaliNotary on 1/15/05 12:47am
Msg #16840

I didn't call you stupid at all. But since that's what you interpreted my post to mean, it doesn't do a whole lot to make me think you're MENSA material. that's for darn sure. And you really don't think that this board is "nothing really special that only NOTARIES should read or ask questions"? Again, why exactly would non-notaries be interested in this kind of stuff or be asking questions about acknowledgements and jurats? I mean, duh.

You really wonder why I might be jumping all over you? Maybe it's because your posting history goes back a whopping 2 days and you've already posted the following?:


"I find that there are some on this board that are full of themselves to say the least.. To me, there are NO stupid questions only stupid answers and some of the people on here prove that over and over and over..."

"good to see some honest helping people on this board...."

"Gosh GET over yourself already!!!!"

"Again everyone has shown their STUPID answer side with the snide remarks... How sad"

"You never fail to amaze me"


Why exactly should we treat you with respect again?

Reply by scade/ca on 1/14/05 11:10pm
Msg #16827

And what is the difference between a Ack and a Jurat? ;> I love this board! What a way to send a Friday night.

Reply by Sheesh... on 1/14/05 11:35pm
Msg #16832

In simple words, a jurat is when they are 'affirming that what they are signing is the truth'.
Acknowledgement is 'yep, I read, understand & agree'.

Reply by Cassandra Read on 1/15/05 1:43am
Msg #16845

I think it is the training they offer now days, there are so many companys that offer these wonderful courses and promises of making big money when you finish, but so many do not go over detail instruction and people are not getting the proper training in the mean time, which is very sad indeed.

Reply by Gerry/VT on 1/15/05 12:06pm
Msg #16881

Sheesh wrote:
"In simple words, a jurat is when they are 'affirming that what they are signing is the truth'.
Acknowledgement is 'yep, I read, understand & agree'."

To be charitible towards the person who started this thread, perhaps the person has made a real effort to research the question, but just did not quite follow the answers he/she found. Maybe an example of when a person would rather acknowlege a signature instead of swear an oath would help. I have in front of me a mortgage which contains a description a property I was buying; the description was written by the seller's attorney. Suppose I happened to believe that the property was actually even better than the description indicates, for example, I thought the property was really 5 acres instead of just 3. I might have wanted to buy the property, and promise to pay the mortgage, without alerting the seller to what a great deal I'm getting. In this case, I wouldn't have wanted to swear that all the statements in the mortgage are true; I would just have wanted to acknowledge my signature.

I understand that the signer usually does not have a choice between taking an oath and acknowledging; usually that would be dictated by the law or by the lender. I'm just trying to illustrate why it might make a difference.

Does anyone have a better example?

Reply by PAW Notary Services on 1/15/05 1:29pm
Msg #16890

Not an example, but a different explanation of what an acknowledgment is and what a jurat is.

An acknowledgment is used when the signer has simply acknowledged that the signature on the the document is their signature, and that they willingly, without duress or coercion signed the document. The signer must be present in front of the notary, when the notary takes the acknowledgment. The notary then documents the acknowledgment by completing a notary certificate stating that the acknowledgment was taken. Documents typically requiring an acknowledgment include deeds, mortgages, contracts, and powers of attorney (except those pertaining to motor vehicle titles).

A jurat is used when the signer is swearing under oath, or affirming, to the facts as presented in the document they are signing. The notary does not need to know whether any of the facts in the document are true, as it is the signer that so stating by virtue of their signature. The notary completes a jurat, so stating that the signers swore or affirmed that the document is true and accurate. Sworn statements are commonly used in affidavits, depositions, and applications.

A notarization requiring an oath begins with the administration of an oath or affirmation.

The courts have held that there should be a verbal exchange between the notary and the document signer in which the signer indicates that he or she is taking an oath. An oath similar to one administered in court by a judge or bailiff would be sufficient. Or, you may simply ask, "Do you swear (or affirm) that the information contained in this document is true?" After receiving an affirmative answer, you must complete a proper notarial certificate indicating that an oath or affirmation was taken.

(Reference: The Florida Governor's Reference Manual for Notaries.)