Posted by Sam I am on 7/21/05 9:28am
Msg #53559

2nd guessing signing & need advice!

Hi everyone! Please don't bash me if thhis is really stupid. I just can't seem to think straight...

Last night I had a signing for a Title Co. There were two loan packages. The first DOT and Note were for John Q Public a single man and Nancy Nice an unmarried woman.

The second Note did not have Nancy Nice's name BUT neither did the DOT. I can understand that she may not be responsible for the payments, but shouldn't her name have been shown regardless on the DOT? In the 2nd package she was only named on the RTC.

I sent an e-mail to Title last night as follows:
Hello. I just wanted to give you a heads up that there might be a problem with these loan docs. The second loan did not have Nancy Nice on the DOT although she was on the DOT for the 1st loan. I only had John Q. Public sign on the 2nd DOT; as his was the only name on the paperwork. Please contact me if you have any questions.

Should I have
1) not sent the e-mail and not questioned the docs?
2) had her sign the 2nd DOT regardless?
3) done something completely different?

Just sign me 2nd guessing Sam...

Reply by Forgot to add "in CA" on 7/21/05 10:00am
Msg #53570

Re: 2nd guessing signing & need advice!

Reply by Stephanie_CA on 7/21/05 10:20am
Msg #53578

If her name was not on the 2nd DOT I would not have had her sign.
And I definately wouldn't have sent the Title Company an email.
In my practices, I have borrowers sign, initial & date if necessary - I do scan docs for blanks.
I am simply there as an impartial witness to be sure the documents are properly executed.
As a Notary Signing Agent, the scope of my responsibilities does not include making sure the documents have been drawn up correctly.

Reply by Sam in CA on 7/21/05 10:51am
Msg #53582

Thanks for your answer. I know as a notary the scope of my responsibilities does not include making sure the documents have been drawn up correctly...BUT as a NSA, doesn't it seem weird to you that a person would be on one DOT and not the other.

Regardless of pointing that out to the Title company - it what situation would it be 'normal' for her to only be on the 1st DOT and not the 2nd?

Reply by MaggieMae_CA on 7/21/05 11:13am
Msg #53588

It never hurts to ask for clarification

from a title or escrow company. My experience is that they appreciate the heads up and the opportunity to correct a mistake they've made instead of allowing it to fall through the cracks. Email is the quickest and easiest way to contact them.

A few weeks ago I emailed a closer about the closing instructions which stated that as part of the refinance John Doe would convey title to John Doe and Jane Doe, his wife, and that Jane Doe would be signing all refinance docs. Well, no conveyance deed was in the package and on the title docs Jane's name was Jane Doe, but on the loan docs her name was Jane Smith. Her ID is in the name of Jane Smith and she goes by Jane Smith.

I received an email the following morning from the supervisor at the title company thanking me for requesting clarification and stating that the closer had forgotten to include the conveyance deed. They emailed the deed to me that morning and paid me an additional $50 to go out and have the deed signed. They had the deed in their Colorado office the next morning.

I don't consider what I did anything practicing law or going above and beyond the scope of my duties.

Reply by CarolynCO on 7/21/05 11:20am
Msg #53589

I personally don't see anything wrong with sending the TC an email, i.e., a *headsup* re the loan package.

Reply by kellico on 7/21/05 11:52am
Msg #53598

I did a signing the other day and the hud 1, owners compliance agreement and the title affidavit had only the husbands name on them, I had the husband sign and sent them back. I received a call the next day saying I should have known and now I have to go back on my own time. I said so I have to make sure of my accuracy and yours. I guess you live and learn

Reply by MaggieMae_CA on 7/21/05 12:15pm
Msg #53600

kellico

That was their screw up, not yours. I would have emailed them after the closing and told them there was a discrepancy and placed the ball in their court. What they did to you was punch you in the eye and blame it on you. CYA and bring it to their attention FIRST! Explain that you are not sure why they did not include the wife's name on the docs, but you think a mistake was made when preparing the hud, compliance agreement and title affidavit omitting the wife's name.

If you wanted to overkill, at closing when you noticed it, you could have used the borrowers' copies of these docs and had the husband only sign the loan set, had the husband and wife sign the borrowers copies. After closing copy the borrower's copies you took and mail it back to them. Return both sets with original signatures to the TC and include a note with the package about what you did and why you did it. You've saved yourself a second trip to the borrowers'.

Just a thought. More ways than one to CYA.

Reply by CarolynCO on 7/21/05 12:43pm
Msg #53608

Re: kellico

I agree with MaggieMae. I would have sent an email and also put a note in the package.

I had a reverse yesterday with a mid-80 some woman in a wheelchair and her arm and wrist were in a cast. Of course, the cast was on her writing hand/arm. The loan officer was present. After about 30 minutes and she'd only signed two or three docs and was really complaining about the pain. The loan officer *suggested* that I fill in the dates for her. The signing still took close to three hours -- and I don't even want to think how long we'd have been there had I not dated the remaining docs.

Should I have dated the docs -- probably not.
Was the LO wrong in suggesting I date them -- probably.

I included a note in the package because it was obvious that her signature/dates did not look anything like my dates.

Reply by MaggieMae_CA on 7/21/05 1:20pm
Msg #53620

CarolynCO... Stupid question time here

This question is for anyone. What's the big deal about a notary dating docs for someone like Carolyn did for the borrower she had? We're notarizing their signature, not the date they put next to their signature right? So, when you have a client who has trouble writing (I had a stroke victim), why not date the docs for them?

The notary not filling in a date is that a escrow rule or a SOS rule?????

I know, I said it was a stupid question.

Reply by BrendaTX on 7/21/05 1:46pm
Msg #53633

Kellieco said:

***I did a signing the other day and the hud 1, owners compliance agreement and the title affidavit had only the husbands name on them, I had the husband sign and sent them back. I received a call the next day saying I should have known and now I have to go back on my own time. I said so I have to make sure of my accuracy and yours. I guess you live and learn***



I agree this is expected. This has been my experience.

(1) the title company I have the best relationship with assumes that people who do what we do know these kinds of things or they would not be doing them. They are a little naive about the lack of training some NSAs have had before starting out. Not bashing new people...just telling a perspective I am aware of.

(2) Most companies I work for have done some kind of vague notice regarding spouses - these are seldom emphasized on every set of docs. I am just supposed to know.

Maggie's overkill is not a bad idea and one that I use. I try to see it ahead of time and make an extra copy to take if I cannot call to verify.

Some would say that the company would send you back and pay you again. Maybe...but I don't want to take that chance. I call, email, or do what Maggie does.

To Sam: I think you did the right thing to check it out, but I also respect Stephanie's view and her professionalism. That's the great thing about this board's exchange of information.



(MaggieMae said: **If you wanted to overkill, at closing when you noticed it, you could have used the borrowers' copies of these docs and had the husband only sign the loan set, had the husband and wife sign the borrowers copies. After closing copy the borrower's copies you took and mail it back to them. Return both sets with original signatures to the TC and include a note with the package about what you did and why you did it. You've saved yourself a second trip to the borrowers'.**)

Reply by MistarellaFL on 7/21/05 2:01pm
Msg #53637

Anytime I notice missing docs I notify them

of my concern. Maybe it isn't in the scope of my job, but anytime I can save them a few bucks, even on their own mistakes, they appreciate it. And they SHOW their appreciation by giving me more assignments. So, believe me, I don't mind spending a few minutes clarifying information or lack of it.

Reply by CarolynCO on 7/21/05 2:44pm
Msg #53664

Re: To Stephanie

Okay, we've all been posting of how we include notes, emails, etc. in packages and the reasons for doing so. Is there any reason other than *the scope of your responsibilities does not include making sure the documents have been drawn up correctly* as to why you *definitely* wouldn't have sent the TC an email?

I'm not trying to start a war -- I'm just curious because as has been posted in the past, we wear different hats during the signings -- our Notary hat and our NSA hat -- IMO, the two are different.

Reply by Sam I am in CA on 7/21/05 1:22pm
Msg #53622

Thanx for all of the replies. Glad I can count on this board for lots of differing opinions and insight!