Posted by Wa notary on 7/22/05 9:00am
Msg #53853

Borrower did not sign, asked to go back........

I went to appt. where the HUD was not what the borrower had expected terms to be. After an over an hour of the LO and borrower discussing, LO consulting with broker, putting borrower on hold, calling back and forth, yadda yadda yadda, I terminated the appt! I did, after all, have other signings to complete~
I told the LO that after they got things worked out, to call me. Then called the SS and also informed them.
They now want me to go back and sign the docs, HUD will be revised.
Would you demand full fee for first trip, and another full fee for 2nd trip?
These docs will take and hour to sign!

Reply by Cinthia FL on 7/22/05 9:13am
Msg #53854

An incident like this occurred to me on Monday I demanded full fee for both trips, and SS was fine with it.

Reply by Mike/NJ on 7/22/05 9:15am
Msg #53855

Did you explain to the borrower that they have a RTC and any questions not resolved he can cancel the loan.

The HUD is not an issue for us. If it was wrong the LO could of faxed or overnighted a new one to the borrower. ( so if you had a signed package or explained it to the borrower there would be no need for a second trip) Most LO's do what they can to close the deal.

About the second trip. If you want more work from this company you may want to discount the rate. (I think this could of been signed at the time with good presentation skills) Otherwiswe charge them the full fee and see what happens in the future.

I have done some freebie stuff for TC's and they toss you some extra's too.

Reply by Wa notary on 7/22/05 9:31am
Msg #53857

Of course, I did explain the RTC, and try to get the signing completed. However, there were other variables including the loan amount, and others..........
It is always my job, when borrowers have ???'s to have them call the LO. This is where the problem lied. The LO told borrower different ##'s, just the day before. If they are going to quote final figures, they better match the HUD that is sent out for signing! Especially when the amounts equal over $1000. that the borrower needs a certified cashiers check for that no one has informed them of....................
I always do the best I can to get a completion, but it is not my job to be an arm twister! My presentation skills do not include waiting for the parties to hammer out differences, while I wait!!
If these are the types of jobs that that particular title co. wants to "toss" me, I am not interested.

Reply by Stephen_VA on 7/22/05 10:15am
Msg #53865

Our job is not to sell the loan. If they talked to the LO at the signing and still would not sign, then your presentation skills were more than likely irrelevant.

Reply by Cherilyn in CO on 7/22/05 10:21am
Msg #53869

I wish the Loan Officers knew this...

I was on the phone with a LO the other day. He told me when the borrowers didn't want to sign his stupid loan, "Come on! You can get them to sign em. You do this all the time."

Uh no, I'm here to notarize the documents you idiot.

The loan didn't go through. I went out twice and got my full fee both times.

Reply by CarolynCO on 7/22/05 10:41am
Msg #53873

Re: I wish the Loan Officers knew this...

I had one a few months back -- the LO called and begged me to take a last-minute signing -- told me that he really got Borrowers a sweet deal.

Yeah, sweet deal all right -- the ARM was, I think, 2 years, and then it was jumping up to 12 percent. Borrowers went balistic -- can't say that I blame them. Borrowers called and put him on speaker phone. It was sick how slick this LO was -- UNTIL he figured out that the Borrowers were in no way, shape or form accepting the loan, then he got downright ugly.

BTW, did you see on the TV last night where Colorado (Adams County for sure -- not sure if it is statewide) is beginning a fraud investigation on mortgage companies because of the increase in foreclosures? -- they are saying many of these people had no business being *qualified* for the loans.

Reply by LMag on 7/22/05 12:17pm
Msg #53897

Re: I wish the Loan Officers knew SOMETHING...

Whoa. The investigation should head to CA, too. I sat in a LO office yesterday waiting for a signer to show, and this new LO asked me how to calculate an applicant's child support obligation. He offered a weekly amount that was around $160. She needed a monthly amount. She asked ME (Notary) if she was supposed to take the weekly amount and multiply by 4.

I was stunned. First, it's not my job to tell her how to calculate this stuff for a loan application. Second, if she multiplies by 4 the monthly and yearly amount would be lower than what the guy actually pays. I tried to explain the math to her, but she just didn't get it. Then she says to me, "Well I'm going to use the lower number (4X the weekly amount) because his 'numbers' are already getting too close to where he won't qualify for the amount he's asking for and my job is to make sure he gets the loan he wants."

At that point, I excused myself. I went to her boss, who said, "We always take a weekly amount and multiply by 4."

So, okay, what's a Notary's responsibility when she observes a LO "massaging" numbers on a loan application? Do I just shut up and MMOB or do I go higher up the food chain (in this instance, higher up the food chain would be the State Licensing Board). ?? Comments, anyone?

Reply by Mike/NJ on 7/22/05 12:27pm
Msg #53900

Re: I wish the Loan Officers knew SOMETHING...

Now thats not our issue.. It's up to the lender to provide the numbers.. We should have no input on them.

You present, explain the forms and wittness.. Questions directed to LO or TC.

Reply by LMag on 7/22/05 12:30pm
Msg #53901

Re: I wish the Loan Officers knew SOMETHING...

"Now thats not our issue.. It's up to the lender to provide the numbers.. We should have no input on them. "

I agree it was not my place to comment. I was waiting for my client when this LO was writing up an app for a different client. I was appalled that she asked ME how to do the math, that's all. Shucks, isn't that what she's getting paid the big bucks for? To know how to do the math? ;)

Reply by CarolynCO on 7/22/05 12:41pm
Msg #53902

Re: I wish the Loan Officers knew SOMETHING...

As for calculating the child support obligation, there is a software program that family law attorneys use which does the calculation. Borrower was given all the paperwork with the final decree.

As for our responsibility, I can't tell you -- when all of the savings and loan companies were going under, the attorney I was working for at the time asked me to change some of the dates from storage boxes for Neil Bush and I wouldn't do it -- regardless of the fact that his Daddy was President at the time, so I don't think I could do a signing where I knowingly knew or had observed fudging of the numbers just so someone could qualify for the loan.

Reply by CarolynCO on 7/22/05 9:57am
Msg #53860

Re: Mike - maybe you should be a car salesman

**(I think this could of been signed at the time with good presentation skills)**

I think you are totally off base. I've had Borrowers who were back and forth on the phone and not happy with the docs. There were no presentation skills that would have gotten them to sign -- nor would I have forced them to do so -- RTC or not.

Reply by Wa notary on 7/22/05 9:59am
Msg #53861

Re: Mike - maybe you should be a car salesman

Thank you Carolyn!!!

Reply by CarolynCO on 7/22/05 10:04am
Msg #53863

Re: Mike - maybe you should be a car salesman

Maybe some people feel right about *pressuring* the borrowers into signing, but I don't. Oops, did I say pressure -- I meant using the proper presentation skills.

Reply by Mike/NJ on 7/22/05 10:58am
Msg #53880

Re: Mike - maybe you should be a car salesman

Say what you want, I run a full time SS's and do a large volume and during that time only 5 no signs.

I give the borrower every chance to resolve the issues with the LO and not watch the clock. Now if I was getting 50-75 for signing yes I watch the clock.

Reply by CarolynCO on 7/22/05 11:45am
Msg #53891

Re: Mike - maybe you should be a car salesman

Who said anything about watching the clock? What was said was that they had other signings:

**After an over an hour of the LO and borrower discussing, LO consulting with broker, putting borrower on hold, calling back and forth, yadda yadda yadda, I terminated the appt! I did, after all, have other signings to complete~**

I don't usually *plug* the name of a SS, but in this case, I want you to plug the name of business, because even though you consider it *presentation skills* I believe that there are many that would consider it *pressuring the Borrowers* and I for one, want to make sure, I decline any signings from your SS.

Reply by Wa notary on 7/22/05 12:16pm
Msg #53896

Re: Mike - maybe you should be a car salesman

Well, by my professional standards, I allow sufficient time to do a signing, and get to my other appts. I do not have the luxury to do only one a day, even if they are not $50. or $75. By the way, how much do you pay your signing agents??? So, do you consider that "watching the clock?"

Reply by Mike/NJ on 7/22/05 12:24pm
Msg #53898

Re: Mike - maybe you should be a car salesman

I pay my subs well and they do a great job for us, I keep very little. If you schedule appointments to close and not allow time for issues then you're clock watching.

I expect every sub to allow the borrower to resolve all issues at the table. Now there are times "certain lenders" have poor comunications and the borrower has not a clue. (These take longer to let the LO clear the air)

If you feel you gave 100% for the lender then thats what should matter, not oh I'm running late for my next signing.

Reply by CarolynCO on 7/22/05 1:02pm
Msg #53911

Re: Mike - maybe you should be a car salesman

I'm glad you pay your subs well. However, at least for me, the agreed-upon signing fee has nothing to do with me using my presentation skills to *sell* the loan and get Borrower signature(s).

First of all, if there's haggling going on back and forth between the lender and borrowers, and the borrowers are not getting any more comfortable with the numbers, then the haggling should have been done BEFORE me arriving at the signing.

*If you schedule appointments to close and not allow time for issues then you're clock watching*

A *normal* refinance takes between 45 minutes to an hour. Wa had already been there for over an hour. And NO, that is not clock watching.

*"certain lenders" have poor communications and the borrower has not a clue. (These take longer to let the LO clear the air)*

Again, the communication and the air clearing SHOULD have happened before the final loan documents were drawn up.

I give 100% at each of my signings -- I explain the purpose of the RTC -- HOWEVER, I have not and will never pressure Borrowers into signing any document, or sit there until they might sign once the air has cleared.

I previously asked the name of your SS, and you are chosing not to post. I wish to be added to your Do Not Call list because your business practices and my own ethics are not a match.

Reply by Merry_CA on 7/22/05 1:43pm
Msg #53921

Re: Mike - maybe you should be a car salesman

You are absolutely right Carolyn! As a Mortgage Loan Broker myself, it is my job to be sure that my client "borrower" is fully aware of the type of loan and all the conditions and variables BEFORE closing docs are drawn. I do not do a high volume (I have a "day Job") of loans but cannot imagine "strong arming" (as LOTS if MLB's & LO's do) a client into a mortgage they are not fully aware of and agree to long before a NSA shows up at their house. It is NOT the NSA's job in any way to make sure a loan closes.

Reply by CarolynCO on 7/22/05 3:04pm
Msg #53932

Re: correction -- you are *choosing* not to post

Reply by PAW_Fl on 7/22/05 11:10am
Msg #53885

Re: Mike - maybe you should be a car salesman

I agree. We are not there to sell the loan. That's the broker/LO's job. We are there to present the docs for signature. If the borrower has a problem with them, let them work it out. No special "presentation skills" required and absolutely no salesmanship needed.