Posted by Anonymous on 7/14/05 11:25pm
Msg #52361

Failing to leave the buyers a copy of the docs.

I would appreciate any information on what exactaly is the "rule" for leaving the borrowers with a set of the docs. Is this required? I am a newbie and my mom and dad just purchased a home. The SA did not leave them a copy of the docs. I would not even think of showing up without a set for the borrows. I belive they should call the title co. in the a.m. and insist a copy be droped off right away.
As I did check the search and found no info any key words I could put in would be great.

Thank You.

Reply by BrendaTX on 7/14/05 11:33pm
Msg #52365

Netco Title is one that does not require the SA go to the signing with a copy for the bwr. They state that I do not need to print out a copy for the bwr. The title company will either email them, or mail them a signed copy. I print them out one anyhow. The bwrs want one when I get there.

Also, what are you going to do if they botch a signature on the DOT?

Reply by Pete/NY on 7/14/05 11:33pm
Msg #52366

I always leave a copy for the borrowers. I have never heard not to.

Reply by Leslie-Mo on 7/14/05 11:40pm
Msg #52369

Some ss state that copies of only certain docs be made for the borrower. I only did it that way once. The borrower asked on almost every doc if he had a copy and I had to tell him no on several. I felt kind of stupid and uncomfortable by the end of the signing and wondered if the borrower thought someone was hiding things from him. I assured him that his lender could give him a copy of any of the docs he wanted. Anyway that was the last time I didn't give a borrower the complete copy of the package.

Reply by Bob-Chicago on 7/14/05 11:45pm
Msg #52374

As I understand the law, bwrs generally are only reqd to receive a copy of TIL and two each of the RTC. If you read the language of most RTCs, that is what they say.
I think, however, that they should rec a copy of all docs signed by them
Further, if they do not receive a copy at the time of signing, they are more likely to spend a whole bunch of time reading docs before signing.
With e-docs , I allways print an extra copy.
If no copy in overnight pkg (unusual) , I will make a copy for bwrs of docs they are singing, even if it has to be at my cost. I own digital copier, so my cost is negligable
Some lenders are starting to send copy pkg direct to bwr. I like this, because they get a chance to review before signing, and it speeds signing up considerably

Reply by Pete/NY on 7/14/05 11:48pm
Msg #52379

Bob

Do I agree with you on that. Everyone of the brwrs I met with have always asked me why they couldn't see the docs beforehand. I just shrug my shoulders. I can't tell them that it's probably because they're coming out at the last minute.

Reply by sue on 7/15/05 7:33am
Msg #52424

Re: Bob

I have been closing loans since the 70s. As a general rule, borrowers have never seen the actual loan docs prior to closing. They are to know their loan figures and specifics ahead of time (and we all know that doesn't always happen) but the 'paperwork' is just that, the lender's paperwork and it's not negotiable nor is it specific to each borrower.

I've got several lenders that allow borrowers to go online to preview their loan docs - few, if any of them, do - they print out their HUD and tell me they don't care about the rest.

Reply by thnotary_NY on 7/15/05 6:31am
Msg #52422

I just had a signing where the bwr wanted to compare the two copies to make sure, his, was exactly the same as what he was signing.

Reply by PAW_Fl on 7/15/05 7:23am
Msg #52423

Under Title 12, the code regarding RTC, the clock starts ticking when certain disclosures are provided to the borrower.

[quote]

(3) The consumer may exercise the right to rescind until midnight of
the third business day following the occurrence described in paragraph
(a)(1) of this section that gave rise to the right of rescission,
delivery of the notice required by paragraph (b) of this section, or
delivery of all material disclosures,\36\ whichever occurs last. If the
required notice and material disclosures are not delivered, the right to
rescind shall expire 3 years after the occurrence giving rise to the
right of rescission, or upon transfer of all of the consumer's interest
in the property, or upon sale of the property, whichever occurs first.
In the case of certain administrative proceedings, the rescission period
shall be extended in accordance with section 125(f) of the Act.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

\36\ The term material disclosures means the information that must
be provided to satisfy the requirements in Sec. 226.6 with regard to the
method of determining the finance charge and the balance upon which a
finance charge will be imposed, the annual percentage rate, the amount
or method of determining the amount of any membership or participation
fee that may be imposed as part of the plan, and the payment information
described in Sec. 226.5b(d)(5)(i) and (ii) that is required under
Sec. 226.6(e)(2).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
[/quote]

I don't know of any statutes (at the federal level nor within Florida laws) that require copies of all documents signed be left at the time of signing.

As a rule, if no borrowers copies exist, and I have not be contracted to provide said copies, and I can make copies (docs not delivered to the borrower), I would still make a copy of the HUD, RTC, TIL and first payment notice, if one is available.

Reply by anon. on 7/15/05 2:52pm
Msg #52503

PAW-FL
There is no right to rescend on a purchase. The original post said her mom & dad purchased a home.

Reply by PAW_Fl on 7/15/05 4:06pm
Msg #52519

I'm aware of that. I posted that Title 12 is where you find the "requirement". I also stated, in the last paragraph, that I don't know of any federal or Florida statute requiring copies of docs to be provided. (But, I'm sure there something, somewhere, that either states it, or at least eludes to it.)

Reply by Ernest_CT on 7/18/05 11:59pm
Msg #53023

Umm, I was with you most of the way, until ...

... you said you LIKE the docs going to the borrowers!

(sigh) Most of the time the docs going to the borrowers does not cause any problem other than the notary not having had a chance to glance through them to be certain all is as it should be (and the notary knowing what to expect). There have been times, however, that the borrowers have made "corrections", mixed their copies with the lender's copies, "lost" one or more pages, and generally created havoc. Then there's the "I showed this to my {cousin, neighbor, bank teller} and ...".

Yes, docs going to the borrower gives the lender (and signing service!) more flexibility. Whether it is ultimately the best for the borrower and notary, however, is open to debate.

As to the question of the borrowers getting copies, yes, they should get copies of all the docs. Period. Just my opinion, of course!