Posted by Teresa Welter on 7/14/05 8:21pm
Msg #52277

I think I am going to be in trouble for asking this but

isn't an affidavit a jurat? The reason I am asking is because at the bottom of these Affidavit's for tonight's signing, on my signature line it actually says, "Signature of person taking Acknowledgement."

It just seems a little conflicting to me. I know this is a bad question and I probably am looking like I need to take the course again (which I have actually considered) but I had to ask.

Thanks.

Reply by Joan_NJ on 7/14/05 8:29pm
Msg #52283

Teresa, where are you from?, please put your state, so someone from your state who is more familiar with your state's wording can help you. I personally don't think any question is stupid, we all get our blocks, even on what would seem to be simple. It's all wording, it only needs to be clarified.

Reply by Teresa Welter CA on 7/14/05 8:37pm
Msg #52289

Thanks Joan_NJ. I am from CA.

Reply by Joan_NJ on 7/14/05 8:44pm
Msg #52291

I'm not familiar w calif. rules, from what i see on boards our fellow notaries have much more to deal with in CA, but hang in and I'm sure someone from your area will help.Please hit your orange search button for related topics, thats what it's there for, and will help in not repeating info that may be in archives. Hang in there, as I understand your question and at times it can be confusing. Good Luck!

Reply by Teresa Welter CA on 7/14/05 9:00pm
Msg #52298

Need Immediate Help Please

Okay, so looking through past threads I think that I should have the client sign his part. Ignore my part at the bottom that says acknowledgement and has acknowledgement wording. And I should then attach a loose certificate to these affidavit's. Is this correct?

Reply by Sam on 7/14/05 9:04pm
Msg #52302

Re: Need Immediate Help Please

**Ignore my part at the bottom that says acknowledgment and has acknowledgment wording. And I should then attach a loose certificate to these affidavit's. Is this correct?**

Yes - but you also should cross thru the bad wording and write see attached....the question now is it an attached jurat or attached acknowledgment?

Reply by AngelinaAZ on 7/14/05 9:04pm
Msg #52303

Re: Need Immediate Help Please

Teresa... an affidavit does not always have to have a Jurat. They sign the affidivit and you acknowledge that they signed it.

Don't take it upon yourself to change a cert. If it says ack... all you can do it replace it with a state approved ack (if there was a problem with the wording). YOU... may not be the one to change it to a Jurat. BTW... it doesn't need a Jurat.

Reply by Sam on 7/14/05 9:06pm
Msg #52306

Re: Need Immediate Help Please

I think I hear a fax coming in now - I'll let you know ...

Reply by AngelinaAZ on 7/14/05 9:08pm
Msg #52309

Re: I'm on the edge of my seat! And the answer is...

Acknowledgement! Just complete the one that's there... Come on... Right!

Reply by Sam on 7/14/05 9:13pm
Msg #52310

Re: Need Immediate Help Please

Huummm - interesting. The very top of the one page says "the undersigned being first duly sworn, deposes and says: blah blah blah"... and the other form says "we do solemnly swear that, blah blah blah". But the bottom of each page has a notarial certificate that is a CA legal acknowledgment.

I'd give you odds of 99 out of 100 that you should just fill in the acknowledgment portion as worded on the forms. I think if you added a jurat it would be UPL. Any of you senior SAs have a different opinion?

Reply by Teresa Welter on 7/14/05 9:14pm
Msg #52312

Re: Need Immediate Help Please

What is UPL? I am going to have to go with it then. Thank you Sam!

Reply by Sam on 7/14/05 9:16pm
Msg #52314

Re: Need Immediate Help Please

UPL = unauthorized practice of law

Glad to help - most excitement I had all day

Reply by AngelinaAZ on 7/14/05 9:25pm
Msg #52318

Sam I've read all the...

help you've been giving and girl... you've got the patience of a Saint. I'm sure that you really helped her feel good about this signing (from the many posts I've browsed I think she was a bit nervous). You did a good thing today! I think she's gonna ace it!

Reply by Sam on 7/14/05 9:27pm
Msg #52320

aw, shucks :) I'm off for the night n/m

Reply by Brian/CA on 7/14/05 9:16pm
Msg #52315

Re: Need Immediate Help Please

You are right, fill out the certificate that is provided, as long as it is CA approved, which it was.

Reply by Teresa Welter CA on 7/14/05 9:13pm
Msg #52311

Re: Need Immediate Help Please

Sam did you get it?

Reply by SAM on 7/14/05 9:14pm
Msg #52313

See Post 52310 - Angelina is correct!! now go go go :) n/m

Reply by Sam I am on 7/14/05 9:00pm
Msg #52299

Does it say anything about the borrower being sworn before you or being under oath? If it does then use a CA jurat. If you'd like you can fax me the form 619 265-8277 and I will look it over for you. Not like I'm doing any signings tonight...

Reply by Teresa Welter CA on 7/14/05 9:05pm
Msg #52305

Coming through now. thanks

Reply by Teresa Welter CA on 7/14/05 9:07pm
Msg #52307

I have like five minutes til I leave. Thank you so much for your help! Thought I had it all covered then started thinking about it again!

Reply by Teresa Welter on 7/14/05 9:07pm
Msg #52308

Oh and by the way there are two different ones. Second one is two pages.

Reply by PAW_Fl on 7/14/05 9:28pm
Msg #52321

If the **certificate** contains "sworn to" then it is a jurat. If the **certificate** says "acknowledged" then it is an acknowledgment. It doesn't make any difference what the title of the document is, as there are affidavits that have acknowledgments on them (sometimes incorrectly, but that's a different thread).

So, is what your saying is that the certificate reads something like: "Sworn to and subscribed before me ...." and then under your signature it states, "Signature of person taking Acknowledgment."

Or, is it something like: "On _____________ before me, __________________________,
personally appeared ______________________________________________________,
personally known to me (or proved to me on the basis of satisfactory evidence) to be the
person(s) whose name(es) is/are subscribed to the within instrument and acknowledged to me
that he/she/they executed the same in his/her/their authorized capacity(ies), and that by
his/her/their signatures(s) on the instrument the person(s), or the entity upon behalf of which the person(s) acted, executed the instrument. " Followed by your signature and ""Signature of person taking Acknowledgment."

If it's the latter, then it is correct, even if the document is titled "Affidavit".

Reply by Brian/CA on 7/14/05 9:47pm
Msg #52324

What she may have is one of those documents that say something like
"Being first duly sworn......" in the beinging of the Affidavit.


Then has an Acknowledgment at the bottom. Very confusing at first. At fist you think it is going to be a Jurat, but since they have only provided an ACK that is all you can do.

Reply by BarbaraL_CA on 7/14/05 10:43pm
Msg #52341

I find that the less you "analyze" the better off you are. Regardless of what the document is, if the notarial wording is CA wording for an Ack then I notarize it using their wording. If it is CA Jurat wording I'll notarize it as a Jurat or stamp the "new" jurat wording on it if it's not correct.
It is not our responsibility to decide what notarial wording is to be used. Use what is supplied or attach loose cert with your state's wording.

Reply by Pete/NY on 7/14/05 10:46pm
Msg #52343

Brian/CA

I find this very interesting. I did a signing tonight and wasn't able to FedEx out yet. I had a couple living in NY but have a home they were refi in Virginia. Some of the docs have the wording you were just describing and I thought I needed to attach a jurat because of the duly sworn to. But on the bottom is a VA ack. So I know I have to attach something... now I'm not sure what is right. Can you or someone else help me on that?

Reply by AngelinaAZ on 7/14/05 11:03pm
Msg #52348

Re: Pete

I have had this alot... I think AZ has a problem with information consistancy.

No matter what the doc is called or says at the top like 'duly sworn' or 'swears'.. if the NOTORIAL WORDING is for an ack... that is what you do. An Ack.

Exception...A couple of times I have had a doc that starts with the venue, then the bulk of the doc contained 'swears'... I had to call because the notorial wording wasn't legal for either ack or Jurat in my state, but seemed to be a little of both. I was instructed to attach both (once) and other times... just a Jurat.

Reply by Pete/NY on 7/14/05 11:18pm
Msg #52360

Angelina...

Thanks I think. This is very confusing. So I guess I'll just attach a loose NY ack to each of these pages that I attached a jurat to. The VA wording is very poor .. like here someone showed up and you notarize. Geez. Ok, so I will attach a NY ack. And keep my fingers crossed.

Reply by AngelinaAZ on 7/14/05 11:29pm
Msg #52362

Re: It shouldn't be too bad

Look at the top of the document. Does it start with State of ... County of... then continues with something that says 'swears' or 'affirms'... then finishes after they sign with an ack?

If so.. call and let them know that the document contains contradictory wording and get instructions.

If it just says Affidavit at the top.. then has the doc... then they sign... then ack wording... just either complete the ack that's there or if it doesn't have the right wording.. attach an ack.

If it says Affidavit at the top.. and there is no notarial wording... leave it alone. It doesn't need to be notarized.

I might be telling you stuff you already know but I'm trying to be thorough.

Reply by Pete/NY on 7/14/05 11:39pm
Msg #52368

Angelina

I give up tonight. And why is it when I post something at 12:40AM the post will show something like 11:40PM. Just wondering. Good night and thank you. I think the sun will come up tomorrow....

Reply by BarbaraL_CA on 7/14/05 11:14pm
Msg #52358

Re: Pete

You need to check your notary book for NY. In CA it is ok to complete an Ack that is worded differently for another state, but NOT a Jurat.

Reply by Pete/NY on 7/14/05 11:31pm
Msg #52363

BarbaraL

You know, I've read and reread our Notary Law Primer and I'm still confused.

It says...For acks on docs not affecting NY real property or affecting real property in another state or not affecting real property at all, NY Notaries should use any other appropriate customary or statutory form including....for corporations... etc.

Well, the problem is what is customary or statutory??? It doesn't say. The VA stuff will say something like this .... The foregoing instrument was ack before me this _____ by Mr. and Mrs. _____. That's it. NY has a much longer ack.

Well, it can't hurt to attach a loose ack, can it???

Reply by BarbaraL_CA on 7/14/05 11:43pm
Msg #52371

Re: Pete

You got it! When in doubt attach a loose certificate.

Reply by Pete/NY on 7/14/05 11:45pm
Msg #52375

Thanks Barb - nm

Reply by BrendaTX on 7/14/05 11:47pm
Msg #52378

Pete...

On the state's site there are documents with acks in them that are not for conveyances of property such as at:

http://www.banking.state.ny.us/pfindpar.pdf

Your question is "Well, it can't hurt to attach a loose ack, can it???"

I'd use the wording in the acks on the state's site and attach if the certificate you are concerned about is not almost identical. But that's just me. Not practicing law, etc. etc.

I'd say it could not hurt because you are obviously trying to stay on the "safe" side.

But, just to be safe, give those folks a call and find out.

Reply by Pete/NY on 7/14/05 11:59pm
Msg #52387

Hi Brenda

I plan to call someone tomorrow. The ss and tc can't help me out. I already ran it by them. I keep thinking that if I add the loose ack based on the wording in my Notary Law Primer, I should be safer, not necessarily safe.

On another thread, I've been really confused on what loose cert to attach because the people are in NY and refi-ing a property in VA. Some of the VA docs start out with duly sworn, etc. and on the bottom of the page it has a VA ack. I thought I would attach a jurat but some of the discussion on the board tonight says do an ack or stay with what's already there and cross out VA, etc. It's beyond me how anyone can know what to do will all of these different docs. I've read hundreds and hundreds of our threads and there seems to be countless situations that come up.

Reply by BrendaTx on 7/15/05 12:59am
Msg #52411

Re: Hi Brenda

** I've been really confused on what loose cert to attach because the people are in NY and refi-ing a property in VA. **

I see your problem. Good luck.

Reply by Brian/CA on 7/15/05 12:18am
Msg #52396

Re: Brian/CA

If it has an ACK that is what you would use. For you to chose any other would UPL. If the VA wording of the ACK is NY valid, you are not going to attach any other certificate.

Reply by AngelinaAZ on 7/15/05 12:20am
Msg #52398

Re: Brian/CA Great Answer!! n/m

Reply by Pete/NY on 7/15/05 12:21am
Msg #52399

Re: Brian/CA

That's the problem. I don't know if it's valid or not. It's just that the wording is not even close.

Reply by Brian/CA on 7/15/05 12:23am
Msg #52400

Re: Brian/CA

No problem, be safe attach a NY loose certificate. Did you say you filled out a Jurat also.
You don't want to do both unless asked to do such. That also would be UPL.

Reply by Teresa Welter CA on 7/15/05 12:45am
Msg #52406

All of these replies/questions/answers.......

You know what is really great about this? I don't feel like it was a dumb question anymore!
LOL!

Good night all!

Reply by BarbaraL_CA on 7/15/05 1:16am
Msg #52413

Go to bed Teresa !!! :-) n/m