Posted by Marla_NorCal on 7/6/05 3:52pm
Msg #50088

Opinion please

National Real Estate Information Services contacted me to do a signing in a town 45 miles away. The couple got into a huge fight (they were separated!) and never signed the papers...
The negotiated fee was $115. but I recieved my check today for the assingment and it was only $50. I did'nt agree to do the signing for less and they never stated they had a "no sign" fee that was less, what should i do? Do I chalk it up to experience and state it in all my future dealings? or do I call them on it and ask for the rest of my fee?
I don't walk out my door anymore for less than $75.00, let alone travel 90 miles r/t TIA for the help. marla

Reply by Bobbi in CT on 7/6/05 4:29pm
Msg #50095

"Trip fee"

Chalk it up to experience. Not a slam, but always ask "... and if I go to the borrowers' home and they decide not to sign or rescind, what is the fee that you pay me?"

That is their standard trip fee. Which isn't bad if you consider there are many companies out there that don't pay you at all if the borrowers don't sign or they rescind.

Reply by CarolynCO on 7/6/05 5:08pm
Msg #50115

Marla,
As Bobbi said, consider yourself lucky that you got $50.00. I've been paid as little as $25-$35.

Reply by AngelinaAZ on 7/6/05 6:12pm
Msg #50135

Boy do I have an opinion on this but based on things I have read and posted on this board... mine is not the popular stance. I believe the more popular stance is '... move on... don't let it bother you... don't take a strong stance... and best of all (careful what you say the SS's are watching).'

I don't think that being professional means that we have to allow other professional agencies to walk on us or adopt policies that damage the integrity of our position.

I really wish that more SA's would stand up and have an opinion on this and adopt a uniform method of dealing with it instead of just putting up with it. I do believe that some battles are not worth it... but face it... some are. The 'trip fee' is becoming more and more common, and at some point it will have to be dealt with. It will be a shame if it is too late. I'm trying to find a board out there where it is a welcome thing to have a lively discussion about 'touchy' issues and how to deal with them.

The SS's that I deal with don't pay me trip fees or I don't work with them... I have stuck to that and I have a good base of clients that really appreciate and value the work that I do. I value them and save prime spots at the end of the month for them and they really appreciate that. I also have a few other things that I do that makes their job easier.

I really like what I do... and I value it. IMHO... If I accept a 'trip fee' then I may as well just take $50 signings too. Why don't I take them? Ask yourself why you don't. I'm sure if I did... I would have about 30% more jobs every month but at what cost?

If I like a company... they give me alot of biz... and they want to negotiate a mutual agreement on a TF... I am open to it depending on the circumstances. But after the fact... take it or leave it... is completely unprofessional on their part and should be dealt with as such!

I haven't had many of these but when it has come up... I have really gotten to see what a company is made of!

Reply by CaliNotary on 7/7/05 1:34am
Msg #50234

"I haven't had many of these but when it has come up... I have really gotten to see what a company is made of!"

This is the key phrase in your entire argument, and it's why I disagree with your stance. If it doesn't happen that often, why on earth would anybody turn down business based on the "what if" factor? Which is better for your bottom line, losing $40 or $50 bucks on the rare occasion someone doesn't sign, or turning down X number of signings per month, most of which ARE going to happen and you'll be paid with no problem?

While in theory it would be nice if we got paid full fee on every trip whether they signed or not, the reality is that many companies just are not willing to do that. And adopting a "uniform method" of dealing with things in an industry full of independent contractors is just a fantasy. Everyone on this board could band together and adopt a uniform method, but how many tens of thousands other signing agents does that leave who don't do it?

To be successful in business you have to adapt to the norms of the industry. In this industry that means eating the occasional fee for whatever reason. Every business has ways they can suffer losses; this is ours. I just see absolutely NO logic in turning down hundreds or thousands of dollars in potential business because you *might* lose $50 bucks every once in awhile.

My main concern is my bottom line at the end of each month. Taking a stand against a losing battle is nowhere near my business priority list. Trip fees are just another variation of the adage "you have to spend money to make money".

Reply by AngelinaAZ on 7/7/05 11:22am
Msg #50267

And they will continue to exploit this avenue because it won't be worth our while to fight it!

Well maybe I'm looking at things with rose-colored glasses on... it's a very distinct possibility. I have a habit of doing that!

My concern on this is more 'large scale'. I believe it has more to do with the integrity of the position. Why shouldn't I notarize something for my sister? For my mother? Because it could be construed a conflict of interest. And to be honest... it really doesn't come up very often that I would have to say no for this reason. In fact it has never come up. Does that mean that if it does it really shouldn't be considered a big deal? It seems to me to be a conflict of interest to have a notary that is at risk of not getting paid for a job if the person doesn't sign. It may not happen often but if I were an attorney... dabating an issue... it would take the credibilty away from the notary if I knew they didn't get paid their fee if the person didn't sign.

But... I'm not an attorney... and I realize that the mother/sister issue is directly addressed in the law and the money issue is not.

I may or may not turn down business from a company based on this business practice... but more often than not... as I stated... if they are honest in their approach and 'fair' in their fee... I will take it and continue to do business with them.

It's the 'after the fact'... where they slip it in... that I have the biggest problem with.

So we can agree to disagree...

Did I say anything regarding 'banding together'? Holy smokes... how much time do you think I have? Yes I do wish that we could figure out a uniform way of handling this but it lies more in the realm of encouraging newbies to not take $40 signings rather than standing on a 'no trip fee' picket line. As you said... there are tens of thousands of SA's not on this board...

My comment on 'see what they are made of' came from a specific issue that I dealt with and the actions and comments from two SS's regarding a trip fee when I questioned it. Neither of them had sent anything to me in writing ahead of time... and when I addressed it I was amazed at the difference in the levels of professionalism. Both SS's were new to me and needless to say... one of them I still deal with and one I don't. (Incidently... they paid me for almost the full fee for the job I did... and we agreed on a future 'fair' fee in case it happened again. They send me lots of biz and I enjoy working for them.) The other company said.... you think you should get paid at all?... we are doing you a favor by paying you $25!!! You should have gotten them to sign the loan!!! HMMMMM... yes I'm jumping at the chance to work with them again... How 'bout NO!

Reply by AngelinaAZ on 7/7/05 12:09pm
Msg #50278

I see that I contradicted myself. To clarify... if a new SS sends me a bunch of disclaimers with trips fees everywhere... I don't work with them. Maybe I am losing business but in my experience... those SS's have been the headache ones anyway.

If it is a 'good' client... and they use me repeatedly... I will negotiate a 'fair' fee with them... I have found in this instance that the client didn't want to lose me any more than I wanted to lose them. They offered up the full fee and I was the one who then negotiated a little where I had some room to do so. They were willing to pay the whole thing and I respected that... so I cut them a break.

And yes... I absolutely agree that it is all in the delivery. Calling and demanding is a sure-fire way to NEVER get what you want.

So I'm off for the day... this week has been crazy busy!

Reply by me on 7/7/05 10:52am
Msg #50261

My biggest SS pays the full amount regardless. I must say, business is business and I would call. If the SS does not contract for payment for services rendered, they should. If you buy a product or service, unless it is defective, you bought it. You have no control over whether the mortgage broker explained the terms before you got there (which is my biggest issue). At the end of the day, I understand that SS want to perform outstanding service at the best price, but at the cost of the people that keep them afloat is not the way to do it. If the loan ends up not closing or the customer rescinds, that is the cost of doing business and ultimately the mortgage company needs to pay for not making sure the deal was sold before it gets to the table!

Reply by Lee/AR on 7/6/05 11:34pm
Msg #50210

Marla does make a very good point. During the phone call, it should be discussed, but it's the Notary's job to ask. (They won't volunteer.) Whatever was discussed SHOULD THEN be stipulated on the CO... a few do that. However, they all should. It's simply good business and ends any arguments.

Reply by Marla_NorCal on 7/6/05 11:41pm
Msg #50215

Re: Lee ?

Should I ask for it?????Thanks for your reponse
Marla

Reply by CaliNotary on 7/7/05 1:39am
Msg #50235

Re: Lee ?

Is this battle worth the possiblity of losing future business with this company?

It never hurts to ask, but it's all in the way you ask. Odds are good that they're not going to give you your full fee no matter how you ask, so I'd say it's definitely in your best interests to ask politely for clarification rather than demand payment.

And at this point just consider it a bonus if you actually are able to get them to pay you the difference. Remember, there are probably a few hundred other signing agents they can call instead of you. That's just reality.

Reply by CarolynCO on 7/7/05 9:18am
Msg #50250

Re: Should you ask for it???

Sure, you can always ask, but is it worth losing any and all future work from them? Personally, I'd take the $50, be happy with it and move on.