Posted by LAG-Fl on 7/2/05 5:28pm
Msg #49609
Power of Attorney and signatures
I am doing a HELOC on Tues and have a question. This is my first time dealing with Power of Attorney. It is a Citibank loan. Citibank is requesting an original notarized copy of POA to match with their copy there is no copy in package. does this mean I return it with the loan package or just check it. My instructions do not say what to do with it. Also the husband is power of attorney for his wife and where the wife is to sign(actually power of attorney) it has several names listed such as Jane Doe, AKA Jane M Doe, by John Doe aka John M Doe her attorney in fact. This is all on the mortgage. IS he supposed to sign for the wife in what her actual name is or all of these? And to make matters worse the husband is listed as John M Doe, who took title as John N Doe this seems crazy....Help has anyone had this before?
| Reply by TitleGalCA on 7/2/05 6:27pm
Msg #49626
First and foremost this is one MAJOR cluster f*** for both you and title (if it were in CA), for a TON of reasons. (excuse my blunt language, but that's it in a nutshell) I'm a bit appalled that this mess would come to you as a signing agent, as presented in your post.
First - the POA. ***there is no copy in package*** NOR THE ORIGINAL, WHICH IS WHAT YOU HAVE TO SEE IN ORDER TO "NOTARIZE THE COPY" OF THE POA. Therefore you cannot address this. Ask the EO to provide that to lender. If you are not provided the tools to notarize, you can't do so. Again, break this down into 'parts'.
Second, any POA must sign as POA as to all the different parts of AKA, etc. It all has to do with the details of how they originally went into title (eg. "took title as"). The way your post reads, my first thought is to send it all back to lender to get their act together. My gosh, the details of this would be enough to send anybody (MOST IMPORTANT the borrower, into a tailspin). Your signatures/initials would read as paragraphs.
If this were presented to me, in the way you describe, I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole unless you had time to confer with escrow, know how title is held, and get a grip on all this and I've been around the block. This is one complicated mess (Again MAJOR DISLAIMER as to the way your post reads) and I wouldn't touch this until Tuesday, after the long weekend, or agree to the signing until YOU had a clear idea of what was being asked of you.
For crying out loud...this kind of request of a signing agent annoys me for professional reasons I won't go into...horrible.
| Reply by LAG-Fl on 7/2/05 7:19pm
Msg #49631
Re: What is everyone elses opinion about this mess????HELP
And one other thing I forgot to say....the acknowledgement is filled out in the section that is for a New York Notary. (THe loan is on their home in NY not Fl) But I am the notary and I am in Florida they live here part time I guess. SHould I just not do this package As TitleGalcal above said.... it is a huge mess.....And yes it would take a paragraph for them to sign it. I have never seen anything like this before.
| Reply by PAW_Fl on 7/2/05 7:32pm
Msg #49634
Re: What is everyone elses opinion about this mess????HELP
It doesn't make any difference where the property is located when it comes to the notarial certificate. The certificate is complete in accordance with the laws of the state in which it was notarized.
The wording of the certificate must conform to Florida statutes. Therefore you need to follow the guidelines as set forth in Fl s. 117 as shown in the Florida Governor's Reference Manual for Notaries.
California does not allow for representative capacity, however, **Florida does** and in your case you must show the attorney in fact relationship in your certificate as I posted in another response.
I don't think this is as big a mess as it appears. At least it just two people, each with an alias, and one signing for the other. Not a big deal. Just take it one step at a time.
| Reply by TitleGalCA on 7/2/05 7:35pm
Msg #49635
Re: What is everyone elses opinion about this mess????HELP
Darlin' - the fact that they filled out the ack as NY and not FL is the least of your problems IMHO (you can always fix that, if your commission is in FL and you notarize properly as to FL notary requirements).
I think this is a problem because of all the aka issues and the POA. If you are UNSURE, you should not accept this signing - IF you are confident enough of the issues here - then get more clarification, and sign away. If NOT (and that's what I'm hearing - jeepers, I'd be pleased to give away this one particular signing as to it's difficulty) please defer the signing to a more experienced title/notary/closing agent, and/or recognize that there's a real issue with the way the documents are drawn up.
I'm NOT suggesting anything other than to only take the jobs YOU are comfortable with - and that by the info in your post, there APPEARS to be a big issue as to signing complications that may be better dealt with by a professional with the escrow/title that are willing and able to figure this one out. Most big company TC's have branch offices that they can hire. Dont feel shy to deny a job that is out of your comfort zone!!
This is a notary/public board. You should NEVER ever take the advice here as god-given, but act in accordance with your commission and most of all, what you are comfortable with. If you're not comfortable, there's other jobs!!
 Regards!
| Reply by PAW_Fl on 7/2/05 7:26pm
Msg #49633
Maybe I misread the original post, but I'm thinking that the borrower has the original POA and sent a copy to the lender. The lender needs the original, notarized POA, not a copy, so the borrower needs to provide the original POA to be returned with the documents.
As for the AKAs on the mortgage, yes, he would need to sign it with the AKAs in the signature line. Yes, it is confusing, but break it down into it's parts and it all makes sense, sort of.
Jane Doe AKA Jane M. Doe ..signed.. BY John Doe AKA John M. Doe
I'm guessing the ID's didn't have middle initials on them, thus the AKA statement. (Remember, name affidavits are not typically recorded with the mortgage, so to match names on ID with names on title, the AKA statement is in the mortgage.)
And, in FL, you would need to show the AIF relationship in your notary certificate. That is: "The forgoing instrument was acknowledged before me this __ day of July, 2005, by John Doe individually and as attorney-in fact for Jane Doe, who is personally known to me or has produced ____________ as identification."
| Reply by LAg-FL on 7/2/05 7:57pm
Msg #49639
The Citibank Mortgage has two seperate areas for notarization... one area is labeled for instate of NY use and the other is for out of State of NY use. The title co. filled in all of the info in the in state of NY section. IF i was to attach my own in the out of state area would that be acceptable even though it is filled out? Would I just leave that one alone? And fill in the portion below? It does seem like alot to have them sign with all the AKA's. The wife as 3 and the husband two.
| Reply by PAW_Fl on 7/2/05 8:03pm
Msg #49640
LAG - Please email and/or call me. Information is available in my profile (click the orange block).
| Reply by TitleGalCA on 7/2/05 8:18pm
Msg #49642
LAG-your in good hands with "Paw" in your own state.n/m
| Reply by TitleGalCA on 7/2/05 8:16pm
Msg #49641
Now that makes more sense...n/m
| Reply by Jenni/CA on 7/3/05 9:03am
Msg #49668
When I first started out I had read that you should request to see the POA. My first signing with a POA I got yelled at by the SS that it wasn't necessary. I then called the SOS and spoke with a supervisor. The SS was right, we do not need to see the actual POA. I was told we do not notarize capacities and a attorney in fact is a capacity. It is the responsiblity of the person signing if there is a problem with the POA. I know that many times the title companies request to have the POA returned in the package, but that is a different hat than the notary hat.
I agree this would be a nightmare signing.
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