Posted by ANON on 7/25/05 10:34pm
Msg #54614

Strange Signing-Need Opinions

Split signing. I am too sign husband who is out of his hometown. The package is edocs with tomorrows date. I called signing service to ask about dates on docs and they told me not to do anything with the dates. Ok, not a problem, but acknowledgements will have todays date, I told them. OK. Get to the RTC and called again because it has tomorrows date, they said again not to do anything with it, and I am supposed to not have him date any documents. I told them too late, he already dated a couple. So we proceed to sign documents, no dates.

Heres my dilema(?). I forgot to mention the wife is signing on Wednesday by a different notary in there hometown. If he signed his RTC on today, but the date was for tomorrow, how are they going to handle this? Sorry if this sounds confusing, but it was. All of my acknowlegements were dated for today. And can I get into any trouble for this? The copies of the RTC that I left him were dated for today, and the copies of the RTC to Title were not dated. I am really nervous about this whole situation.

Reply by Mike/NJ on 7/25/05 10:37pm
Msg #54618

The RTC will be based on her date's so if she signed on Wednesday thats when the clock starts. It will fund on the 4th day after she signs it.

Reply by ANON on 7/25/05 10:41pm
Msg #54619

So, is it not a big deal to have the borrowers NOT date documents if asked by a hiring company?

Reply by Mike/NJ on 7/25/05 10:48pm
Msg #54624

As long its not a form you need to sign, date or fill in it should not matter what the dates are. If it is something you need to sign and date you must put that day down.

Just check with the SS or TC if you are not sure.. If you need to sign .... Must be that day PERIOD.

Reply by Mike/NJ on 7/25/05 10:42pm
Msg #54621

Sorry, if he dated today and the RTC is dated for the next day then the RTC maybe fubbar. The lender may need to fax a new RTC to the borrower and then to his wife.

Reply by ANON on 7/25/05 10:46pm
Msg #54623

Thats what I mean. Even if he didnt put a date on the RTC, all my acknowlegements have todays date. So how would they swindle that one. He obviously signed everything today. I just dont want anything bad to come out of this. If I was supposed to do something different, anybody please let me know.

Reply by CaliNotary on 7/25/05 11:04pm
Msg #54629

You don't mess with people's right to cancel. You should have changed the dates to reflect today as the date of the signing and Thursday as the last day to cancel AND you should have had him date it when he signed it. The wishes of the signing service or title company do not supercede federal law.

Reply by AnneSoCa on 7/25/05 11:16pm
Msg #54632

On an RTC, isn't it the case that if there are two borrowers and one person signs on, say, the 25th and another on the 26th, then the right for them to cancel is based on the latter of the two (whichever is dated the latest). So in that example, they would have the right to cancel 3 days after the 26th.

I know it doesn't answer the original question in this post, but it made me think about RTC's and the cancellation dates.

Reply by CaliNotary on 7/25/05 11:33pm
Msg #54639

Each person gets their own right to cancel based on the date they sign. Essentially they end up with the right to cancel based on the date of the second signer, but the first signer can only cancel through 3 days after he signs on the 25th. If it were cancelled the day after that, it would have to be the second signer who makes the request.

Reply by Joan Bergstrom on 7/26/05 2:04am
Msg #54665

The Right to Cancel starts with the 2nd person signing the Right To Cancel.

Example: 1st person signs on July 1st and 2nd person signs on July 6th then the Right to Cancel starts when the second signer signs on July 6th.

Reply by PAW_Fl on 7/26/05 8:10am
Msg #54680

There are TWO perspectives you must take into account in regards to the RTC.

When there is more than one owner/borrower, EACH, but law (USC 12) gets their own rights based on the requirements on the day the each sign and receive disclosures. So if signer #1 signs on the Monday, their expiration is Thursday. If signer #2 signs on Wednesday, their expiration is Saturday. That's the way Title 12 reads and is implemented on the borrowers/owners side of the transaction.

There would be no way that the first signer would be able to receive a correct and accurate RTC notice and disclosure unless it was based on the actual date they signed and received the disclosures. No one has a crystal ball and can see when the subsequent signers would be able to complete the RTC. What would happen if the second signer didn't sign until Thursday? Would the RTC for the first signer who signed on Monday have to be redone? No, because each signer gets their own RTC with dates specific to their situation.

On the lender's side, it's a different story. Funding cannot be accomplished until the rescission period for ALL parties with a right to rescind has expired. So, in the example above, the lender cannot process until the expiration date of the last signed party, which would be Saturday, midnight.

Reply by ANON on 7/26/05 8:31am
Msg #54685

Re: Strange Signing-To PAW

Could you possibly give me the link you had put on before regarding the law for this. I did a search and could not find it. Ive also been searching the web all morning and could not find it. I want to print it out so I have it for future reference. I would deeply appreciate it.

Reply by PAW_Fl on 7/26/05 8:47am
Msg #54691

Link to text of 12CFR226.15

http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422/14mar20010800/edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2002/janqtr/12cfr226.15.htm

Reply by ANON on 7/26/05 8:58am
Msg #54696

Re: Thank You!! N/M

Reply by SarahBeth_CA on 7/26/05 11:54am
Msg #54755

Am I the only one reading and interpreting this way. Anon states "The package is edocs with tomorrows date." In CA docs must be dated on or before date of notarization. Even if you were to say to ss "acknowledgements will have todays date" it would be a no no in CA.

Reply by es/ca on 7/26/05 12:23pm
Msg #54767

SarahBeth, I had a loan pkg from Wells Fargo that had the docs dated about two weeks after we were signing. I assumed I could not notarize. I called the NNA and they said they had been hearing a lot about these and said we can notarize them with date of signing providing there was no wording on the Dot & other docs that they were "executed" on the future date and that it was not backdating.

Reply by SarahBeth_CA on 7/26/05 12:31pm
Msg #54768

Did you check that answer with the CA SOS? I only ask because after reading several posts on the NNA's answering some state specific questions incorrectly I really don't trust thier answer. I have more to say on this but let me get the little one something to eat first.

Reply by es/ca on 7/26/05 12:46pm
Msg #54770

I emailed them but got no reply. Which brings me to another question. On these threads many have mentioned calling the S.O.S. but I have never found a successful way to contact someone who could give me correct answers. I have checked the website and tried different numbers. Any help would be appreciated. As far as the docs I did process I could not find anything in the handbook for CA saying the docs could not be dated later than the notarization.

Reply by SarahBeth_CA on 7/26/05 12:49pm
Msg #54773

Ok I was thinking about loan packages in general. Not thinking about the fact that they don't always have a jurat in them. DUH ON ME...

Reply by es/ca on 7/26/05 12:51pm
Msg #54775

This one did have a Jurat in it.

Reply by SarahBeth_CA on 7/26/05 1:19pm
Msg #54785

Ok now you really have me thinking. My sa manual says for a jurat the document date must be the same date as notarization date. Yet I am looking at the CA handbook and I'm trying to find something to support that statement. I'm not finding anything that mentions document date. The important dates are the date that the signor personally appeared and acknowledged the execution of thier signature, or swore and subscribed in my presence. Sounds like a flaw in my sa manual.

Reply by Terri - CA on 7/26/05 2:19pm
Msg #54808

Not exactly true. In CA - NOTARIES are not responsible for the contents of the document. You must put the date which the signer appeared before you in your Notary Certificate. However, as a Signing Agent, I would make the company that hired me aware that the documents are dated after the date of the signing appointment and get a determination from them to proceed or reschedule the appointment for the document pre-printed date.

As has been previously and multiple times posted, that the date of a document could be an effective date and while someone may sign a document prior to the "date of the document," it could be the "effective" date of the document which could be in the future.

I have had this happen once, I received the docs and appointment was made for the day before the pre-printed date on the documents. I called SS and was instructed to go ahead with the signing, which I did. Then I received a call the next morning, oops they made a mistake, go back out again today, which was the date on the docs. I received two fees for that one. Fortunately, I hadn't yet dropped the docs and was able to use the Borrower's copies for the second signing, and left the other "signed" copies for their records as instructed. Had extra RTC's too, which I had removed prior to the original signing, so was able to use those.

Terri
Lancaster, CA

Reply by es/ca on 7/26/05 3:12pm
Msg #54821

This was Wells Fargo and according to them they do this all the time. The doc dates are two to three weeks in the future and yes, it is the effective date. They even had a Jurat attached to the payoff statement which is never accurate and yet the want the borrower to swear that it is correct