Posted by CarolynCO on 7/29/05 10:17am
Msg #55599

Witness question

I probably should know this, but I've never had an occasion where I needed to know -- for Wills, etc. that are notarized/witnessed in the law offices, another secretary or someone in the office acts as the witness. For loan docs, we aren't requried to have a witness, and I've never had to have borrowers use a witness because of no I.D. or other reason.

Now my question - my Vietnamese construction loan for Saturday. It's for Florida, so I need two witnesses. I can be one of them. I don't know how old their daughter is -- I spoke with her shortly on the phone when she answered -- she appears to be a teenager and her English is not broken. The borrowers speak broken English. I realize that a young child couldn't witness these docs, but is there a certain age that a witness must be? -- And is is possible that the daughter could act as a witness and help me, *not explain*, but help her parents *understand* the docs?

Reply by Kim on 7/29/05 10:42am
Msg #55609

Hello, I think I can help you. You can not use a family member as a witness in Florida. I have been informed n the past that the I as a notary can be one witness and a third party Non-affialated with the family can be the other witness. I have actually had to pay someone to go with me and tacked that expense to the company paying me for the closing. Hope this helps. Good Luck

Reply by CarolynCO on 7/29/05 10:50am
Msg #55614

Thanks, Kim -- that answers my question.

Reply by Becca/Fl on 7/29/05 10:52am
Msg #55616

Kim is right. You should have a non-relative sign as the second witness. Any warm body will do as long as they are not named in the doc and not directly related to the signer.

I know some EO's that let anybody, relative or not, sign as a wittness, but I was told by an atty. that it is best if the witness is not related and over 18yrs old.

Call my cell if you need help tomorrow.

Reply by CarolynCO on 7/29/05 10:57am
Msg #55618

Becca,
Do you see a conflict if I allow the daughter to assist me in helping her parents *understand* the docs, without crossing the fine line of UPL?

Reply by Becca/FL on 7/29/05 11:08am
Msg #55626

I always feel better if the translator is not related, but sometimes you have to work with what you got. Florida statute says:

A Notary may not take the ack of a person who does not speak or understand the English lang, unless the nature of the instrument to be notarized is translated into a lang which the person does understand. ss 117.107(7)

Check you State laws to see if there is a provision for your situation. I would also ask the TC if they wouldn't mind you getting the # for their RE agent and Lo in case there are ?'s. It does make you wonder how they have gotten this far in the process. The RE agent or LO may be able to clue you in.

Reply by CarolynCO on 7/29/05 11:28am
Msg #55637

Becca,
in the package they included a sheet of numbers for me to call. I don't know how long Borrowers have been in the US -- they do speak English and they can read English. I guess my concern is getting into the "what does that mean" situation. Yesterday when I found it easier to talk to them in person than over the phone in explaining the purpose for the witnesses, I took Borrowers copy with me. During the conversation, there were several "what does that mean" and "explain."

I remember back to the first reverse signing I did and how much I learned and how long it took. I haven't even had this construction loan signing and I've already learned so much from you. Thank you, I really do appreciate it.

A problem I can already foresee is that they own the liquor store where the signing is taking place. It didn't appear that there were any employees to run the counter, and even if the daughter were available, without her being 21, she can't sell liquor.

Reply by Cherilyn in CO on 7/29/05 11:33am
Msg #55639

Carolyn-do we have any laws in CO regarding translators?

Probably not.

I had a signing last month were I needed a translator on a Sunday morning. I couldn't find one-LO told me that the teenage son was going to be there and he could speak English. I wasn't sure if this was OK or not and I couldn't call anyone on a Sunday am.

Anyway, Loan didn't close until later that week anyway and I brought someone with me to translate. I was glad as I didn't feel comfortable with the son translating.

Wonder if I should call the SOS office and ask? The laws are so darn vague!

Reply by CarolynCO on 7/29/05 11:44am
Msg #55651

Re: Carolyn-do we have any laws in CO regarding translators?

**Wonder if I should call the SOS office and ask? The laws are so darn vague!**

Cherilyn,
do you have time to call them?--if so, I'd really appreciate it, if you are offering. I'm running in three different directions and already late to meet with 2 of my attorneys. I shouldn't even be here, but I figured it might be easier to get my thoughts in posts early this morning so they can be replied to throughout the day.
Thanks a bunch.

Reply by IrisWA on 7/29/05 11:46am
Msg #55652

A naive (?) question regarding jurisdiction

Did a quick scan of my state's notary laws, but can't find any mention ... but, does it matter what the originating state's laws are regarding having two witnesses? That is, since you're notarizing in Colorado, wouldn't Colorado law on the subject dictate how many witnesses you are using? Just the same as if Florida wording were including in the jurats/acknowledgments, and you would modify to fit Colorado's verbiage.

(This is not to be construed as me instructing -- I'm asking ... as a suggestion AND so I learn from the answer, as well.)

Also, in an earlier thread yesterday, Carolyn, I saw your post #55374 about this upcoming construction loan and very late in the end of the day, I posted a request that you share some of what you learned about construction loans. I realize it's EOM -- another time would be great, if you feel you can/want to share.

Reply by CarolynCO on 7/29/05 11:49am
Msg #55655

Re: A naive (?) question regarding jurisdiction

Iris,
I'm running out the door and will post more later, but there is a page in the docs that specifically say "even though your own state may not require witnesses, Florida requires that there be two."

Reply by IrisWA on 7/29/05 11:56am
Msg #55667

Ah! That makes sense now -- thanks. N/M

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 7/29/05 2:45pm
Msg #55739

Re: A naive (?) question regarding jurisdiction

Florida only requires two witnesses if there is a deed involved - like a Quit Claim deed, Warranty Deed or Grant Deed. The mortgage does not require witnesses.
Witnesses names must be printed under their signature or the deed will not record.


The witness requirement has nothing to do with notary laws, they come under the Real Estate laws so must follow the laws of the state where the document is being recorded.

We have to remember we wear two hats - a Notary Public hat and a Signing Agent hat.