Posted by AngelinaAZ on 6/13/05 11:47am
Msg #44256

Backdating question

The question is: Has anyone been requested to ask the borrowers to backdate stuff that doesn't need notarization... like the original 1003 and some disclosures?

The Lender submitted a written request for the 1003 and disclosures to be dated almost a month prior. When I inquired the Lender says 'And don't tell me that you can't do this because it has nothing to do with you or what you do.'

Is this legal or is it really none of my business. As far as I am concerned... I am paid to ensure the accuracy of the entire package... this is just not how I work.

Am I out to lunch with a stick up my *** on this or are they completely out of line.

I was also given a written request to submit three partially completed notarized acknowledgements in order to 'prevent problems'. Geez, they have no shame!

Reply by Jenni on 6/13/05 12:03pm
Msg #44264

The backdating of the 1003 is generally just to have them actually sign the application 1003 form with the date that they applied for the loan. Had they been there in person they would of signed it on that date. I have had many sets of loans that the 1003 were already dated and the borrower signs it and a 2nd set of 1003 forms with the current date that they sign.

As far as the acknowledgments. NO WAY.

Reply by AngelinaAZ on 6/13/05 12:09pm
Msg #44269

I have never dated ANYTHING for any date other than the date they are sitting in front of me.

Are you saying that it is acceptable practice to ask the borrowers to sign the 1003 and disclosures for the date they applied for the loan??????? My standard practice is 'No' on ANY and ALL backdating, did I miss something? (I am really asking... did I miss something... is this Ok on the old 1003 and stuff?)

Reply by Jenni on 6/13/05 8:21pm
Msg #44424

Sometimes there are notes to the borrower asking them to date the application a certain date. I have never asked, just let the borrower read the note. That is the only form I have seen a request for a previous date.

Reply by BrendaTX on 6/13/05 12:06pm
Msg #44267

IMHO:

Up to the bwr on the 1003.

Give it an Aggie Horse Laugh on the partially completed acks. (SSSSSSsssssssss!)

Reply by AnglinaAZ on 6/13/05 12:15pm
Msg #44275

I used to do the laugh and now I do the...

'I have a GREAT IDEA, I am so happy to help you out with this. I tell you what I am going to do. I will go ahead and complete loose acknowledgements for any docs with incorrect wording or no room for my stamp. I'll attach it and emboss it to the doc so that there are no problems. I am sooo happy to help you out and normally, I charge extra for this but I like you so much that for you... no extra charge!' Silence... Silence... Uhmmm OK... Silence

Reply by SarahBeth_CA on 6/13/05 12:09pm
Msg #44268

I would also like to know what others think about the dating of docs not to be notarized.

On the issue of written requests for partially completed acks I would ask what does the AZ handbook say about it. In CA Gov Code 8225 speaks of solicitation of an improper notorial act to be a misdemeanor. I'm inclined to think that request could be considered to fall under that.

Not an attorney.. Not legal advice..

Reply by AngelinaAz on 6/13/05 12:18pm
Msg #44276

I was being sarcastic about

I guess I confused everyone. I would never ever under any circumstances complete a loose ack and just send it without the doc attached. It is NOT OK in my state. I was being sarcastic about the audacity of the person requesting the ACKS in the fact that she sent a written request. We were talking about...'Get it in writing just the other day about some other stuff.'

Reply by SarahBeth_CA on 6/13/05 12:25pm
Msg #44278

Re: I was being sarcastic about

Oh the sarcasm came across and I wholeheartedly agree that thier audacity is outrageous. But depending on the wording of your State's Law it you may want to turn them in for soliciting you to do something illegal in writing. At least call the SOS and ask them for thier advice.

Reply by AngelinaAZ on 6/13/05 12:34pm
Msg #44281

Re: Speaking of turning them in

From this company:

1) I received a written request to backdate the entire package and notarizations for one day prior.

2) I received a written request to backdate the 1003 and disclosures one month.

3) I received a written request to send partially completed and notarized loose acks.

I have a feeling that they have a newbie in their office! I'd love to see the ruckus she is causing on that end when the bigwigs see the paper trail!!!

Reply by ERNA_CA on 6/13/05 1:07pm
Msg #44294

Re: Speaking of turning them in

The documents we are concerned with as far as date is anything that requires notarization. If the lender wants the borrower to back date anything that dose not require notarization its between the lender and the borrower. But they should not involve you. Its quit common for a lender to ask borrower to backdate certain doc's, with the date of app taken over the phone for instance. Are we suppose to police the whole process or just be concerned with our part of it, the date on doc's that are notarized are defiantly our concern. But to ask you to tell the borrower to backdate, don't think so. That should be between the borrower and the lender.
JMHO.

Reply by AngelinaAZ on 6/13/05 1:12pm
Msg #44295

That's how I feel about it.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 6/13/05 1:32pm
Msg #44300

Re: That's how I feel about it.

My notarizations are always for the date the borrower is in front of me. No backdating under any circumstances.

Any other docs the lender wants backdating - like the 1003. I will pass it to the borrower and say "the lender is asking you date this for _______ date", then it is up to the borrower whether they date it for the date the lender is asking for, or the current date.

Reply by BrendaTX on 6/13/05 1:37pm
Msg #44302

Ditto Sylvia nm

Reply by AngelinaAZ on 6/13/05 1:43pm
Msg #44308

Re: That's how I feel about it.

Thx for the advice. I guess I do have a stick up my *** about the other docs. I like to be as accomodating as possible but I wish that they would just leave it between them and the borrower.

I just don't want the word BACKDATE associated with me at all.. but I guess I'm looking through my rose colored glasses again. It just really doesn't seem right to me, non-notorial docs or not... but you live and learn.

I have a busy day... 5 signings squashed into one afternoon... and they are all in a town an hour away so I'm getting more than $150/each.... YIPPEE!

Reply by Giselle_CA on 6/13/05 2:07pm
Msg #44314

On the particially completed certificate request, that would be an improper notarial act and it would be consider a misdemeanor according to Gov Code in CA.

Reply by John_NorCal on 6/13/05 6:20pm
Msg #44396

When I brokered loans, the underwriters always, as they do now, wanted a signed typed 1003. Never once did I have an underwriter want the 1003 back dated. The original handwritten/typed 1003 was sufficient for date purposes. Face it, the loan is underwritten well before the actual signing takes place. So go ahead, throw that part of back dating in the lenders lap.