Posted by Leslie - Mo on 6/14/05 1:19pm
Msg #44564

Borrower prints name rather than write a signature

Has anyone else had this happen. I just did a signing this morning where the borrowers were foreign and didn't have a very good grasp of English. If I would let them sign their normal way, they wrote first inital and last name in cursive, but if I told them them had to write out their first and last name - they printed both. After doing the fax backs, I've been told this isn't acceptable and I have to go back. Any comments --

Reply by ColleenCA on 6/14/05 1:22pm
Msg #44565

Yep, must be the signature. Go back and chalk it up to experience. Good luck.

Reply by BrendaTx on 6/14/05 1:40pm
Msg #44568

**Yep, must be the signature. Go back and chalk it up to experience. Good luck.**

Yes, I have had immigrants print. They spoke perfect English, but my request to write their signature in script did not translate. In a couple of cases their signatures were more like symbols, albeit very pretty symbols.

I refer to professors and scholars from Venezuela, the African continent, Jamaica and Mexico. All were far more educated and intelligent than I. This made it twice as hard to explain because while they were very nice, it was difficult for them to believe that they needed to take instruction from me or to admit they did not understand my request. Finally, I just went with it and let them print. Their printed handwriting was very unique.

It presented no problem for me in the five to seven times it has occurred.

Reply by ColleenCA on 6/14/05 1:50pm
Msg #44573

I would think that the lenders would require a signature, as it is much easier to forge a printed name then a signature. Brenda, did the lenders ever ask you why the borrower printed instead of signed?

Reply by BrendaTx on 6/14/05 1:55pm
Msg #44575

No. I suppose they probably already knew the mind of the academic they were dealing with and knew that it would be a lost cause in these cases.

Besides, I have done folks loans who were USA, plain ol' folks and they printed their signature. Mine looks like a sundried worm...theirs were neatly printed...everywhere - even on TDL. A sig is a sig, I suppose.

Reply by BrendaTx on 6/14/05 1:58pm
Msg #44576

PS Colleen...

My son has forged my signature for years. I can write my ex-husbands name so well you'd think he did it. Forgery worries are what notaries are for in loan signings, IMHO.

On refi loans, forgeries are prevented (supposedly) by ID'ing the signer.

Also...now that I think of it, I have seen stroke victims print their name.

Reply by ColleenCA on 6/14/05 2:02pm
Msg #44581

Re: PS Colleen...I'm laughing!

I sign my husbands name on most everything and we always joke that the next time he really has to sign something, they won't believe it's his signature! I think this is the case with most couples.

Reply by BrendaTx on 6/14/05 2:35pm
Msg #44597

Re: PS Colleen...I'm laughing!

Yeah, I try not to practice writing his name more than once a week (LOL) since we have been divorced for 21 years now.

Reply by Charm_AL on 6/14/05 2:42pm
Msg #44600

speaking of stroke victim...

I had a 1 PM today, 15 minutes away and just got back. It was extremely difficult for him to sign but we got thru it...I'm finding that patience is a definite requirement in this field.
BTW: For future reference, can I write in the dates on their docs? Never did it before and that was the signer's biggest hurdle. I felt so bad for him, his wife had an amazing understanding of what he was saying, I couldn't figure it out.

Reply by ColleenCA on 6/14/05 2:00pm
Msg #44578

I guess since the original post stated that they were asked by the signing service to go back and have them re-sign, then that lender must require it. Since it isn't usual that a person prints their signature, I would go back and do it at no charge.

Reply by BrendaTx on 6/14/05 2:02pm
Msg #44580

***I guess since the original post stated that they were asked by the signing service to go back and have them re-sign, then that lender must require it. Since it isn't usual that a person prints their signature, I would go back and do it at no charge.***

Good point. It would depend on circumstances for me. The lender never questioned my situations at all.

Reply by just a question on 6/14/05 2:03pm
Msg #44582

what is the definition of signature????

isn't a signature anything the borrower wants it to be? what if they are illiterate and sign with a mark? I know in my state that "x" is an acceptable 'signature'...what is your experience?

Reply by dictionary on 6/14/05 2:05pm
Msg #44584

Re: what is the definition of signature????

sig·na·ture
Function: noun
1 a : the act of signing one's name or of making a mark in lieu thereof b : the name of a person written with his or her own hand to signify that the writing which precedes accords with his or her wishes or intentions c : any mark (as initials, stamp, or printed name) made on a document and intended to serve as an indication of the party's execution or authentication of the document and intent to be bound by it —

Reply by PAW_Fl on 6/14/05 3:28pm
Msg #44609

How did they "sign" their ID?

If the signer printed their name on their ID, then it should be 'printed' on the documents. If they 'wrote' (as in cursive) their name on their ID, then that's how they should sign the documents. Their signature, by Florida standards, is whatever they normally and consistently use to sign documents. So we, as Notary Signing Agents, verify the signer by their ID and validate the signature on the docs to "reasonably match" that which is on their ID.

Reply by Becca/FL on 6/14/05 2:33pm
Msg #44593

We have a large Haitian population here in So Florida and all the signings that I have done for those of Haitian decent print their names rather than sign in cursive. I have never had anything kicked back because of this. Of course, I send a copy of the FLDL with the pkg and the siggys match - that is just how they sign their name.

Though, I did have one I refused to do because the man of the house refused to let his wife sign the docs. He was the man and would be signing for her. He got mad at me, I high tailed it out of there and told the TC to send a man next time. I chalked it up to cultural differences. The man called me back the next day begging me to come back and said he was sorry. I still had the TC send a man. I choose not to return.

Reply by janCA on 6/14/05 2:51pm
Msg #44604

I've had many borrowers print their names, as this is what was also on their ID. I've had no problems with this.

Reply by Terry_MN on 6/14/05 3:47pm
Msg #44614

How did the borrowers sign their picture IDs?
I've had a number of signers who either print their names in entirety on their photo IDs or use a combination of script and printing. In those cases it is unique and should be matched when they sign your journal (which I have the borrowers do prior to signing any docs).
I've also had borrowers who possess unique and unreadable signatures. In these cases I make certain that the unique signature is on the photo ID. Those signers, in most cases, could not insert a middle initial in their signature if they tried.
We are positively identifying the signer(s) by verifying their personal information and signature found on their government issued photo ID.

Reply by calipat/ca on 6/14/05 4:18pm
Msg #44621

I have had borrower's print their name without any problems. Their ID's were also printed. The first time this happened I asked the borrower if he could please use cursive he said he never learned to write cursive and that he even signs his checks by printing his name. Now I just let them sign the way they normally sign. I have even had symbols as signatures with no problems. A signature is just the way a person normally signs their name. I don't know why you would have to go back unless that is what the lender requires. I just hope they can write cursive, if not what are you going to do.

Reply by ?? on 6/14/05 10:47pm
Msg #44707

I had a lady that couldn't read nor right very well and she printed her name on all docs because that is all she knew how to do. I made a note and never heard anything about it being a problem.

Reply by Leslie - Mo on 6/14/05 11:01pm
Msg #44713

I am going back and have them re-sign tomorrow cause the lender or title company won't accept they way they signed. Their id's are signed the same as what they signed for me. If allowed to use just initial and last name they both wrote in cursive, ( husband did this on both of his id's) but when wife signed full name (as on her drivers license) she ended up printing. The ss asked how much I want to go do the re-sign and I told them since I felt it was my fault there wouldn't be any charge. She said no - since it was a language problem and I had already told them it might be a problem before hand - they will at least pay me another $25.

Reply by BK_FL on 6/15/05 12:03am
Msg #44737

If the way they signed, be it printed, intitials with half cursive is how it is on their ID's, you did no wrong and therefore should be paid full price to return for resign. $25 is an insault.

Paw hit on the nose with how they sign has to match or come close to what is one thier ID's, whether they are foreigners or US born citizens. Signature does not mean cursive. BK/FL

Reply by DonnanorthernCA on 6/15/05 12:26am
Msg #44745

Why were you notarizing for someone you were unable to fully communicate with?