Posted by jjkuhl on 6/7/05 10:20am
Msg #42915

Conflict of interest?

I did a signing last nite for a couple who had won the lottery several years ago, before they offered the payout option. Now, they were using this company to get a lump sum payment--bascially signing over their yearly payouts for a lump sum. The husband was expressing some concerns, so they decided to keep a couple of the signed papers and send them back to the guy if they decided to go ahead. Here's my question---I really wanted to tell them to make an appointment with my business partner who is a financial planner (my day job!), but felt uncomfortable doing so in the middle of the signing. As a public servant, and someone who tries to do the very best for her clients, should I have least said something about talking to somebody???

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 6/7/05 10:26am
Msg #42917

No, you are a disinterested party.
If the husband is expressing some concerns, I am sure he is going to look further into it before deciding whether to go ahead with it or not.

BTW who hired you???

Reply by jjkuhl on 6/7/05 10:30am
Msg #42921

Company is called Freedom First Capital

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 6/7/05 10:40am
Msg #42923

Not heard of them.
Reason I asked is J G Wentworth had me go to a client's house twice, the client was signing over his annuities to JG Wentworth. First time I went out took me a while as client had not filled out any of the paperwork (and I had been assured that everything was ready, he just had to sign and I had to notarize), he filled it out and signed, I notarized and dropped the package off with Fedex.
Then JG Wentworth called me to go back, the borrower had filled out some paperwork wrong. I was assured I would be paid for both trips.
Same deal, borrower hadn't filled out anything when I got there, so had to wait while he made several phone calls to JG Wentworth to get answers to some questions.
Sent docs back. JG Wentworth never paid me, they said it was the client's responsibility to pay me.

Then Peachtree Settlement called me to do some notary work. Turns out it is same client, he had decided to go with Peachtree and not JG Wentworth, said that JG Wentworth were "a bunch of crooks". I let him know that JG Wentworth had told me it was his responsibility to pay me, he said it wasn't. that JG Wentworth should be paying me, they hired me.


And when Peachtree Settlement hired me I asked them to make sure that the client was ready for me as I had been out twice before for another company and none of the docs were filled out etc. They assured me he would be ready. - He wasn't!!!!

Reply by Mistarella on 6/7/05 10:57am
Msg #42927

Peachtree Settlement Services

I did some work for them April and was promised $75-Stilll no check. What are your experiences with payment from them?

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 6/7/05 12:07pm
Msg #42943

Re: Peachtree Settlement Services

I did the work in March!
I got a fax last week saying they were withholding the check as they hadn't received my W9.
I have faxed it over to them, and am still waiting.

Reply by Roger/OH on 6/7/05 12:13pm
Msg #42947

Re: Peachtree Settlement Services

I've had nothing but good experiences with Peachtree.

Reply by Ted_MI on 6/7/05 3:34pm
Msg #42993

Re: Me too (good experiences) n/m

Reply by Roger/OH on 6/7/05 10:30am
Msg #42920

Definitely a conflict. Your notary duties preclude your soliciting them for a personal reason. Your role
is strictly as an impartial witness on behalf of your state. Same reason we can't offer opinions on interest rates, etc to borrowers.

Reply by Ted_MI on 6/7/05 10:46am
Msg #42924

Roger,

I believe this issue has been discussed before, and thus I wonder if she had just left her business card with them would that have constituted a solicitation? My inclination is no; it wouldn't have.

Reply by Roger/OH on 6/7/05 12:17pm
Msg #42948

Ted...

It has come up before, and it's certainly OK to leave a business card. If the card notes that you offer financial services as part of your business, and the people then solicit YOU, then that's OK.
Similar to how we handle title companies when working thru an ss; we don't solicit them, but if you include a card in the package and they later contact you directly, then that's their choice.

Reply by Ogdoad on 6/7/05 11:07am
Msg #42929

Personaly, I see no problem offering "an independant 3rd party review".
I've seen too many good people taken advantage of by the sharks in
this business. So if you or your associate can be of service, by all means
go for it.

Reply by Stephanie_CA on 6/7/05 11:54am
Msg #42937

Re: Conflict of interest? - Ogdoad

There is a problem with offering "an independent 3rd party review"
As Notaries Public, we are not allowed to become involved in the transaction other than to notarize signatures.
As Sylvia has stated we are disinterested parties in the transaction.

Reply by Ogdoad on 6/7/05 5:37pm
Msg #43015

Re: Conflict of interest? - Ogdoad

"As Sylvia has stated we are disinterested parties in the transaction." Excuse me, who's Sylvia? Please let me know that I might worship her too...

Reply by Stephanie_CA on 6/7/05 11:51am
Msg #42936

You are to be impartial; we are to do the very best as a Notary Public.
It is not out place to be involved in anything but identifying the signers, to make sure they are aware and willing to sign, fill out the notarial cert., sign and place our seal on the cert.

Reply by Ogdoad on 6/7/05 12:09pm
Msg #42945

JJ - C'mon, As a financial planner this has got to be a no brainer. You can do the notary service on the side and meet some potentially great clients at the same time. If you're worth your salt as a CFP and you are in the business to help people you owe it to them to extend your expertise. Educate them for Chrise Sake. Don't worry what the nannies say. Do your job & help the people. Just MHO...

Reply by Ernest_CT on 6/7/05 12:19pm
Msg #42949

YES! It IS a conflict of interest!

As has been stated elsewhere in this thread, and certainly is in our states' manuals, we have to be impartial. Soliciting business while at a signing is at least unethical, and probably is illegal.

If a borrower refuses to sign, it is unethical for me to suggest a mortgage broker I know.

If I am doing a loan signing that will not be in the best interest of the borrower I must not voice my opinion.

No matter how unhappy I may feel, I must do my job. Or quit.

Reply by Roger/OH on 6/7/05 12:31pm
Msg #42952

Using your logic, it would be OK to tell a borrower who was getting 12% that you know where they can get 9%. Absolutely unethical for a notary to be doing so, or to be involved in any other way with their transaction.

It is essential to the integrity of the Notary Public office that you remain a disinterested, impartial officer of the state, there to witness and notarize their signatures on documents that they have agreed to with their lender - PERIOD. There have been postings in the past about NSAs trying to solicit borrowers for side businesses such as prepaid legal services, Amway, etc. You cannot solicit them just because you have a captive audience.

Reply by CarolynCO on 6/7/05 12:49pm
Msg #42958

Re: Ogdoad - if you do as you say, your humble opinion ...

is going to get you in a heap of trouble.

**Educate them for Chrise Sake. Don't worry what the nannies say. Do your job & help the people.**

No matter what we notarize, we are impartial. It is NONE OF OUR BUSINESS what we are witnessing/notarizing. Our opinion must stay inside our head and not come out our mouth -- no matter how much we feel it will benefit the individual(s).

Our job is NOT to help these people by giving them our advice/opinion.

The unhappiest witness/notarization I have ever done was for an 18 year old girl. She lived with her mother and grandmother and it was obvious that none of them had ever lived much above the poverty level. She wanted to go to college and make something of her life, and I applaud her for that. However, to do it, the family, IMO, signed their souls to the Devil and got with one of these companies to "cash in" a $35,000 life insurance policy that had been willed to her. The stumbling block was that she couldn't touch it until she was 25 years old. She was ending up with $10,000 TOTAL with this "cash in" -- barely enough to cover one year of college tuition, housing and food. When I left that house, my tongue was literally bleading from chomping down on it to keep me from speaking up. You don't know how much I wanted to shake some sense into all three of them. BUT IT WAS NONE OF MY BUSINESS!

Reply by Ogdoad on 6/7/05 4:40pm
Msg #43007

Re: Ogdoad - if you do as you say, your humble opinion ...

Congrats Carolyn your ethics are in tact. Hope you sleep well at night.

Reply by Ogdoad on 6/7/05 12:40pm
Msg #42956

OK. Some people are gonna say it's a conflict. Bottom line is this - are you conflicted about it? I guess you are since you had to ask the question in the first place. Some people are constrained by their so called "ethics" ie. "If I am doing a loan signing that will not be in the best interest of the borrower I must not voice my opinion." Just who' s interest does that serve? Are you totally beholden to the company that will supposedly send you a check 30 to 45 days from now? I don't think so scooter. Who really pays that signing fee anyway? It's the person you're signing, do them a favor & don't be afraid to offer a little advice if you can. Don't let the nimrods tell you what to do. God gave you a brain - use it!

Reply by CarolynCO on 6/7/05 12:56pm
Msg #42960

Re: Ogdoad - are you for real ??

Signing Services and Title/Loan Companies read these boards. If Ogdoad's identity is ever revealed, I can assure you that you have shot yourself in the foot because BIG TIME of your advice. If this is your MO as a Signing Agent/Notary, you are definitely in the wrong profession.

Reply by Ogdoad on 6/7/05 4:47pm
Msg #43009

Re: Ogdoad - are you for real ??

"Oh we're afraid to go with you Bluto we might get in trouble." Well you can kiss my @ss - Niedermeyer's a dead man! AAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 6/7/05 1:00pm
Msg #42962

And how do we really know it is not in the best interest of the borrower? We do not know all the circumstances.

"Contrained by ethics"
Well, golly gee, I always believed that notaries public should be ethical as officers of the state. And it is unethical to solicit business for another company while working as an independant contractor for one company.

And to offer advice on legal documents or issues could be construed as UPL.

Reply by jjkuhl on 6/7/05 1:03pm
Msg #42964

I knew there was was reason I kept my mouth shut! That's a hard place to be in---I just hope they got some good advice somewhere!

Reply by Roger/OH on 6/7/05 1:09pm
Msg #42965

Ogdoad...

You asked whose interest is served by our being impartial and not involved in the borrower's affairs? The PUBLIC interest is served. The office is called Notary PUBLIC (not Notary Private) for a reason. You cannot use the access to borrowers (or ANY customer) or powers of the office for personal gain. By the same token, we are not beholden to any company that contracts with us to provide NSA services. We don't represent them, we are not their employee; only contracted to provide a specific service. As noted in the other posts, you are treading on very thin ethical ice if you solicit.

Reply by jjkuhl on 6/7/05 12:51pm
Msg #42959

Well---it never ceases to amaze me how many opinions there are on any subject! I was just contacted by them again, asking if I could print out a couple more docs, get them signed and fed-ex them back...looks like the guy made up his mind to go ahead. My guess is that since the client won the lottery several years ago, he probably does already have a financial planner (I hope). Turns out, he knows my dad from his working days.

Reply by CarolynCO on 6/7/05 1:03pm
Msg #42963

Re: Only two opinions

**Well---it never ceases to amaze me how many opinions there are on any subject! **

Even with all the responses you've received, I've only read to opinions -- the ethical and correct one as a Notary Public, and the very wrong one advising you that the rest of us are nannies.

Reply by CarolynCO on 6/7/05 1:31pm
Msg #42969

Re: Correction

should have been *two* opinions and not *to* opinions

Reply by HisHughness on 6/7/05 2:10pm
Msg #42974

Re: Only two opinions

CarolynCO blunders:

***Even with all the responses you've received, I've only read to opinions -- the ethical and correct one as a Notary Public, and the very wrong one advising you that the rest of us are nannies.***

Need another correction, Carolyn. As many on this forum will tell you, I am a first-class ninny. But I ain't no nanny.

Sometimes, it just doesn't pay to get up. Don't walk under any ladders today.

I do agree with you, though. Unsolicited solicitations are beyond the pale. Somebody ask, yeah, give 'em card. Otherwise, you need to maintain your distance.

Reply by CarolynCO on 6/7/05 2:17pm
Msg #42975

Re: Only two opinions

Ninny/Nanny -- is there a difference? I have to admit that this thread and the less than ethical advice given has me more than a little PO'd, in case one couldn't tell.

Reply by Ogdoad on 6/7/05 1:29pm
Msg #42968

Hi JJ. Ogdoad here. HeHe.. I am for real and you're all too easy. I've got a boat named Ship Disturber and you can probably figure out why. Anyway I'm always amazed at how much people read into things. I never said you should solicit while at a signing. That would be "bad". I would suggest however that it is possible to be a notary public and a financial planner at the same time without violating your oath or your ethics as a financial advisor. But since you're the professional I'll leave it to you to figure out. One word of advise though, just follow your conscience, It's usually right. Don't listen to all the nimrods on this post (including me). Have a great day!

Reply by CAtitlegal on 6/7/05 1:36pm
Msg #42970

Re: speaking of Nimrods

**without violating your oath or your ethics as a financial planner** How about ethics as notary, Nimrod??

thanks. I'll remain a Notary Public, whose "ethics" are way more important to me, than a lowly financial planner.

Reply by BrendaTx on 6/7/05 2:45pm
Msg #42982

Re: speaking of Nimrods

Just got in from an inspection and tuned in while cooling off.

A peek at Oggy D's posts and they are so weird that I don't want to waste my " pearls" of wisdom on this one.

I think there's a limit to how many pearls we get in this lifetime, and so whew! You guys are off the hook on this one.


(BTW - just so you know my conception of reality is in tact - I realize my so-called "pearls" are nothing more than the ramblings of a half-decent Texas bullsh__ artist")

Reply by jjkuhl on 6/7/05 2:55pm
Msg #42985

HEY--CAtitlegal....excuse me???

I must say I take offensive at your "lowly financial planner" remark. Our firm prides itself on providing the advice and guidence most people need to plan for the kind of life they want for their present and future. Hence, my intial concern for the people I saw yesterday. My intent was NOT to gain their financial planning business, but to make sure they don't get themselves into a situation that is detrimental to them and way too profitable for the financing company. I will agree that there way too many planners out there who are just looking to 'churn' their business to make a quick buck off their clients, but then there are those of us who actually have their client's best interests at heart.

Reply by CAtitlegal on 6/7/05 3:07pm
Msg #42986

Blanket apology to ethical financial planners !

Humblest of apologies - I was so torqued at this guy, making it sound like the only time his 'ethics' would come into play was in the role of financial planner (not the notary) - I couldn't let it go. Make that a blanket apology to all financial planners (other than this yahoo).

Reply by jjkuhl on 6/7/05 3:07pm
Msg #42987

Re: Blanket apology to ethical financial planners !

thank you!

Reply by Ogdoad on 6/7/05 4:31pm
Msg #43005

Re: Blanket apology to ethical financial planners !

Hey Susan, You got Torqued? That's a new one, I like it. It's good of you to appologise to JJ, but you shouldn't assume this Yahoo is a CFP also. I'm not. There you go again...

Reply by Becky on 6/7/05 5:11pm
Msg #43011

Since the other service you are offering could cause the signer to change their mind, or do anything differently then I'd say that's a conflict of interest.

Now, I also would like to express an opinion about solicitation. If I was in the signers position, I would find it an invasion if the notary pulls out some other business/service offer out of his/her briefcase after the signing is done, like trying to sell me a set of encyclopedia or time share. However, I don't think it is wrong to solicit other businesses as long as you are brief, like leaving a business card and asking the signers to call you at a later time if they were interested, or asking the signers permission for you to call them later.