Posted by AngelinaAZ on 6/8/05 2:26am
Msg #43094

DOT Issues... Help!!!!

A while ago I had an issue with Fidelity because there were no spaces for initials on the DOT, so...as per my experience... no initials. The closing agent tells me to go back and ask the borrowers to initial, 'everything must be perfect'. We have a disagreement because I told her that I don't ask the borrowers to initial anything not marked or indicated in the instructions. She says that I am doing it wrong then.

So I call the Sec of State who says, yep... initial it.

So then in discussion I am told NOPE... NO WAY... only if the lender asks or there is a space.

I call the Sec of State again and they say, 'Well it's not mandatory in some situations ***what does that mean- some situations?*** but it is always a good idea."

So I quit doing it if there is no space for it and again... from the TC, a different one this time, where are the initials on the DOT? AHHHHHH!!!!! WHAT?????

So I call the Sec of State and ask again and the guys gets really rude and says... 'What do you do if you have to attach an Acknowledgement or Jurat to something." I say, feeling two years old, "I fill it out and fill out the reference info at the bottom and I seal it as well as emboss it to the original and I write *attached document bears embossment*."

He says, "Why do you embsoss it?"

I say "So that it cannot be attached to a different document"

He says,"Do you HAVE to emboss it?"

I say,"No but I do it to protect myself and the signer."

And he says, "And something as important as the deed to someone's house that is many pages long, you are just going to notarize that they signed THAT DOCUMENT when THAT DOCUMENT can so easily be altered if there are no initials-how could your notarization ever hold up if disputed?"

So then I ask, 'Well is it mandatory?'

He says, 'No but if you wouldn't just mail a loose cert to someone just because they asked you to... then you ought not to forget those initials.'

I feel like I am going nuts. I don't want to facilitate a bad situation for the borrowers, I don't want to tick off the lenders and I REALLY DON'T want to go back to the same place TWICE!

Why are we instructed to have borrowers ONLY initial multi-page docs that require notarization IF the lender instructs? Has anyone had a problem because they did get initials when not instructed?

Has this EVER happened to anyone else? Advice?

Reply by Dellaca on 6/8/05 8:07am
Msg #43118

I will like to see the answers for this question,Myself if no place for initials I do not,have not had it come back as yet.

Reply by Me Again! on 6/8/05 8:12am
Msg #43120

Yikes. You are not going crazy!

DO NOT initial docs unless you are asked to and/or if there are designated spots (like lines) that ask you to. Geezo!

Embossing a loose document is smart! Please continue to protect yourself and protect your signer(s). I EMBOSS even though it's not mandatory. Again, Geezo!

Good Job Angelina

Reply by janCA on 6/8/05 9:17am
Msg #43128

I always have the borrowers initial the DOT, and any rider to it, even if there is no place for initials. I've never had any problems with this.

Reply by AngelinaAZ on 6/8/05 9:43am
Msg #43139

Re: Attorneys out there...

I've been doing this awhile and this DOT thing is really starting to annoy me! In your expert opinion, knowing the advice given, which way would you go?

Right now I am calling the TC if I see no place for initials and I ask them... would you like initials on the DOT? It has worked but what a pain!!!

Reply by PAW_Fl on 6/8/05 9:50am
Msg #43144

Re: Attorneys out there...

My philosophy is to do only what is told to me or evident. Nothing more, nothing less. If the note, DOT/mortgage and riders >>do not<< have a place for initials, and there are >>no instructions about initialing<<, then the instruments do not get initialed.

If there are the "Initial ______" lines, or specific instructions that state that each page of the instrument must be initialed, then I instruct the borrowers that they need to initial each page. (Sometimes, even the signature page and the notary certificate page.) Further, if the DOT/mortgage requires initialing, then chances are the riders do too. And, if the legal description (Exhibit "A") is an attachment to the DOT/mortgage that requires initials, I have the borrowers initial it as well.

Reply by AngelinaAZ on 6/8/05 9:59am
Msg #43148

Re: Attorneys out there...

This is exactly how I believe it should be done... So why the problems??? I can't figure out why it has been an issue TWICE!

I feel like I want to get that little tidbit in writing (something that says 'The Lender will clarify...or whatever) so that I can say, 'Well of course I will go back out and get initials for you but it is going to be an additional fee of $____.!' and if they have an issue with it, I can fax it to them.

Anybody know where I can get it in writing?

Reply by PAW_Fl on 6/8/05 10:05am
Msg #43150

Re: Attorneys out there...

The issue is there is "nothing written". So, you can show them the instructions and the pages to the instruments and point out that there is >>nothing<< directing you to get initials. In this case, it's the lack of something in writing that has directed you NOT to do something.

This make sense?

Reply by AngelinaAZ on 6/8/05 10:14am
Msg #43152

Re: Attorneys out there...

Completely... Absolutely... It has always made sense to me.

I think this whole thing is ridiculous.

I appreciate the advice... I guess I will just deal with this as it comes.

Reply by jojo_MN on 6/8/05 9:48am
Msg #43142

Unforturnately, the best thing to do is call and ask. I used to initial all dot's but I had a couple lenders say they don't want them initialled unless there is a space. They all have their own rules.

Reply by TN Notary on 6/8/05 9:48am
Msg #43143

I had one yesterday I called the loan officer and she said to not have them add the initials. If there is no space for it than leave it as is. This happens quite a bit for me. I have them initial only if there is a space for initials.

Reply by ColleenCA on 6/8/05 10:15am
Msg #43153

Re: Confusing!

Wow, this is confusing as I have a list of common loan documents which states to always have the DOT initialed in the bottom right hand corner. Isn't it better to over sign then under sign? Will it really make a difference if the DOT is initialed as to the funding of the loan?

Reply by AngelinaAZ on 6/8/05 10:26am
Msg #43154

Re: Confusing!

It is confusing. I scrounged up my old package and the example given has NO SPACES FOR INITIALS yet is says **always have the DOT initialed in the bottom right hand corner.**

HMMMMM.

It is not always good to have an oversign in certain situations. As in a Non-Borrowing Spouse they ONLY initial and sign certain stuff... but in this situation, on the DOT... I would tend to agree.

But I think I am reduced to calling. What a pain in the *&%.

I wonder if this is an AZ Title thing?

Reply by PAW_Fl on 6/8/05 10:42am
Msg #43158

Re: Confusing!

Be very careful about initialing in the "bottom right hand corner" as many recorders have margin requirements. While the margin is mostly at the top of the document, there are some recordings that must have a minimum margin around the entire page. So, initialing where no designated space exists, may cause a problem at recording.

Then again, a lot of recorders don't even care about initials on each page.

Reply by AngelinaAZ on 6/8/05 10:59am
Msg #43168

Re: Sorry PAW... clarification

I was trying to shortcut my typing... I just got new fingernails and they are gorgeous but I feel like Edward Scissorhands...

my reference in the manual says next to a DOT without space for initials, "In the sample Deed of Trust, the borrower must initital each page except for the signature page."

My state does have specific margins for recordable documents, and AZ is picky.

Reply by Jon on 6/8/05 10:44am
Msg #43159

Re: Confusing!

"I wonder if this is an AZ Title thing?"

That would be my guess. If the SOS said you should get initials, get initials. If a company questions you, tell them you were advised by the SOS to get initials on all pages of the DOT.

Reply by ERNA_CA on 6/8/05 1:10pm
Msg #43206

Re: Confusing!

I agree Colleen, more is better than less, some may disagree but I allways do more and have never been called back because of initials or signatures. One of the quiestions some ss ask to find out if you know your job is about initials on DOT.....Intl. every page then sign last page is the corect answear, here in CA anyway.

Reply by SamIam_CA on 6/8/05 1:29pm
Msg #43216

Re: Confusing! - I disagree w/ Erna

**Intl. every page then sign last page**

I have never had an issue with any of my loans either. Not all DOTs had initial spots and therefore I did not have borrowers initial. They have all closed successfully. Perhaps it depends on the county in which the DOT is being recorded.

My favourite ones are where the borrowers are required to sign & initial on the same page!

Reply by ERNA_CA on 6/8/05 1:34pm
Msg #43220

Re: Confusing! - I disagree w/ Sam

Dont know what kind of loans you have been doing. But the ones I have been doing requier intl. on every page signature on last page. My daughter is an escrow officer all the notaries doing notary work for that company follow that rule without exception, and that title co. is nation wide with offices in every state.

Reply by ERNA_CA on 6/8/05 1:42pm
Msg #43222

Re: Confusing! - I disagree w/ Sam

Bottom line is. Can a loan not close because int is missing? yesssssss
Can a loan not close because of int. where one wasn't necessary? I think not.
Ask a Title close I think they will agree.

Reply by SamIam_CA on 6/8/05 1:46pm
Msg #43224

Re: see msg. 43158 regarding the margins n/m

Reply by SamIam_CA on 6/8/05 1:47pm
Msg #43225

Erna....

We could go on like this all day! Can we just agree to disagree?

Reply by ERNA_CA on 6/8/05 2:10pm
Msg #43228

Re: Sam....sure we can , but what is the point in that ....

Would hate to see a notary go out again for initials because they though that if someone didn't pacifically tell them to get initials they shouldn't worry about it.

Reply by CarolynCO on 6/8/05 2:23pm
Msg #43235

Re: Sam....sure we can , but what is the point in that ....

Erna, unless specifically stated in instructions and unless there are lines/blanks for initials, I take it to mean that there is no right or wrong -- that whatever choice *each* of us make is *our* choice. If someone can't make a decision on their own, instead of arguing back and forth in the forum, call the blasted loan officer and see what they want!

Reply by ERNA_CA on 6/8/05 2:37pm
Msg #43246

Re: Sam....sure we can , but what is the point in that ....

Well of course if the original poster had called and pacifically asked we would not have this posting in the first place. But she ended up in trouble for lack of initials. I received my advise about initials from escrow officers and closers, just passing it on, but each will do things their own way regardless.

Reply by hcampers/fl on 6/8/05 3:47pm
Msg #43280

I have a question?

Isn't the word "specifically"? Just wanted to see if I'm missing some CA slang? *Just Kidding*

Reply by ERNA_CA on 6/8/05 4:03pm
Msg #43287

Re: I have a question?

Got that one out of the book of Florida slang ** but was missed by your abc spell checker

Reply by SamIam_CA on 6/8/05 1:43pm
Msg #43223

Re: Confusing! - I disagree w/ Sam

*Dont know what kind of loans you have been doing*

The usual - HELOCs, ReFis & Purchases. The HELOCs I do are at the bank and no initials are wanted or needed. The lenders and title companies vary on the other loans I've done - and some want them and some don't.

Reply by ERNA_CA on 6/8/05 2:05pm
Msg #43227

Re: Confusing! - I disagree w/ Sam

" Some want them and some don't"
Exactly!!!
So when there is not a pacific instruction if it is required or not. It is all way's safer to get initials
Some lenders will put a line for initials some don't. If you are doing a signing at a bank or lenders office you can ask, if you are in the field you many times can not clarify. Then just ask your self a simple question. If initials are required even though there is not line for it could this loan not close because initials are missing? Yes, more is always better than less, ask any closer.

Reply by PAW_Fl on 6/8/05 2:12pm
Msg #43230

Re: Confusing! - I disagree w/ Sam

>>> more is always better than less, ask any closer. <<<

I disagree. In some cases, initialing docs when not required to may not be a problem. However, you just know there's going to be a picky settlement agent or lender processor who won't accept the docs if they are changed in any way, including adding initials when not requested. So, IMPO, more is not **always** better than less.

I've already stated my policy that if there are no directives to initial, it doesn't get initialed. Florida is not a DOT state, but a mortgage state, and I would guess there's a 50/50 split between those mortgages that have spaces for initials and those that don't.

Reply by ERNA_CA on 6/8/05 2:16pm
Msg #43231

Re: Confusing! - I disagree w/ Sam

To each his or her own Paw. Ca is a DOT state. I did ask Escrow officers and Closers and they all told me the same thing. Get int's. more is better than less. Maby its diffrent in Florida, have no idea.

Reply by CaliNotary on 6/8/05 2:25pm
Msg #43236

Re: Confusing! - I disagree w/ Sam

I've had a RTC kicked back to me because I had the borrowers initial next to the dates that were written in. With this particular company that was a no no. Completely opposite of every other company I've worked for.

I've also had many Deeds of Trust that didn't ask for initials, so I didn't have them initialed. Not once has one been kicked back to me.

It's not my job to guess what they want signed or initialed. If there's not a space for it I don't have them do it.

Reply by ERNA_CA on 6/8/05 2:31pm
Msg #43240

Re: Confusing! - I disagree w/ Sam

Well thats just what she did. She didn't get initials and she had to go back twice. I have had one that had thee instructions as to no initials on RTC, but hey did not put a date on the RCT so no corrections were necessary, therefore no need to initial.

Reply by CaliNotary on 6/8/05 2:33pm
Msg #43243

Re: Confusing! - I disagree w/ Sam

Well the RTC I had DID have the dates handwritten in, yet they still wouldn't accept it with the initals on it.

Reply by CarolynCO on 6/8/05 2:32pm
Msg #43241

Re: Confusing! - I disagree w/ Sam

I agree with you Cali. Every company is different. When in doubt, call the loan officer either before going to the signing or while at the table. That will eliminate having to go back because the initials were needed or having to go back because docs were initialed and they were not supposed to be.

Reply by CaliNotary on 6/8/05 2:35pm
Msg #43245

Re: Confusing! - I disagree w/ Sam

I wouldn't even call the loan officer for something like this. If they don't have a space for initials I don't have them initial. Period. If they want me to go back out to fix something like this, they're gonna have to pay me for a second trip.

Reply by ColleenCA on 6/8/05 2:39pm
Msg #43249

Re: Cali-I love your thinking on this!

I do have a notary friend however who did not get the DOT initialed, the SS called to send her back, she said she would for an additional fee since there was no int. line, and they told her they would not pay her extra because every notary should know automatically to get the DOT int. She went out without extra pay to insure that they would pay her for the signing. What would you have done in that circumstance?

Reply by SamIam_CA on 6/8/05 2:52pm
Msg #43253

AND NOW FOR SOMETHING COMPLETELY DIFFERENT

Sorry about that. I just wanted to change the subject line so I don't look like everyone is still disagreeing with me (when in fact everyone is agreeing with me but Erna).

Reply by CAtitlegal on 6/8/05 2:53pm
Msg #43254

Re: AND NOW FOR SOMETHING COMPLETELY DIFFERENT

I don't blame you!

Reply by AngelinaAZ on 6/8/05 3:02pm
Msg #43261

TO PUT AN END TO THE ARGUMENT

Does anybody feel like going to a Mexican Goat Ropin'?

In all serious, thanks to everyone and I'm sure because we deal so many lenders and TC's and everyone has their own requirments... I'm sure my answer lies somewhere in the middle.

There is NO DIFINITIVE from the SOS, I don't like calling lenders with what they will no-doubt perceive as a dumb question, and I don't beleive that more is always better. So I guess I will have to use my own judgement on a case by case basis. THX all!

Reply by Jon on 6/8/05 3:12pm
Msg #43266

Re: TO PUT AN END TO THE ARGUMENT

I would also suggest that when you do a loan for the two co that asked for inititals, get the initials to keep them happy. Again, it boils down to lenders preference.

Reply by Jon on 6/8/05 2:56pm
Msg #43256

Re: AND NOW FOR SOMETHING COMPLETELY DIFFERENT

I adjusted the subject line when I replied!!!!

Reply by ERNA_CA on 6/8/05 3:00pm
Msg #43259

Re: AND NOW FOR SOMETHING COMPLETELY DIFFERENT

"Everyone is agreeing with me but Erna"
Read again, don't think so, therefore change the subject. Didn't know the object of a post was to agree with you anyway but for each to give their inside to the fact that a notary was sent out to get initials when they were not pacifically asked for. Make it personal .you did that by putting name in subject line. But that didn't surprise me in the least. But doesn't bother me in the least either, its an open book in here.

Reply by SamIam_CA on 6/8/05 3:39pm
Msg #43274

Re: AND NOW FOR SOMETHING COMPLETELY the same

**"Everyone is agreeing with me but Erna" Read again, don't think so, therefore change the subject**

Okay - fine. Me Again, Paw, Jojo, TN Notary, Jon, Carolyn, Calinotary and myself all agree that you should not have borrowers initial unless instructed to do so and/or there are initial lines pre-printed on the DOT.

**each to give their inside to the fact that a notary was sent out to get initials when they were not pacifically asked for** only Colleen and Angelina have written in about a situation where a notary was called to task for not initialing.

**Make it personal .you did that by putting name in subject line** I put your name in the subject line so you would be sure to read the message. Sometimes when one is busy they only read the subject lines and move on.

The reason I joined the discussion in the 1st place was to insure that a less experienced notary did not take your statement "that is how it is done in CA", as Gospel.

Reply by ERNA_CA on 6/8/05 3:48pm
Msg #43282

Re: AND NOW FOR SOMETHING COMPLETELY the same

Making sure that less experienced notary did not take your statement "that is how it is done in CA"
Your unreal. My statement was that is how I do it and that is what I have been told when I asked Escrow officers and Closers. Dont put words in my mouth.
No need for you to police my posts Sam, I was responding to original poster, wasn't talking to you in the first place.
I see you post on here a lot incorrect info for notaries out of state, stating CA procedures. Why don't you stick to policing your own posts and stay out of mine. Believe me i know your agenda, and its ugly. And you can be sure .noted by all.

Reply by Anonymous on 6/8/05 3:51pm
Msg #43285

THE HORSE WON'T GET ANY DEADER

Reply by Jon on 6/8/05 4:12pm
Msg #43291

Re: THE HORSE WON'T GET ANY DEADER..........

.....maybe not, but we can try can't we?!?!?!?!?!?!?

Reply by ERNA_CA on 6/8/05 4:16pm
Msg #43295

Re: THE HORSE WON'T GET ANY DEADER..........

Lead me to the horse so I can lead it to water and wash its wounds

Reply by CarolynCO on 6/8/05 7:53pm
Msg #43369

Re: It's a Crap Shoot

OK, this is absolutely the LAST post I'm posting in this thread. If there are no instructions and no lines for initials, it's a crap shoot and you will have a 50% chance of getting it right and a 50% chance of getting it wrong in regards to the loan company preference.

Reply by ERNA_CA on 6/8/05 2:27pm
Msg #43237

Re: Confusing! - I disagree w/ Sam

The initial post states that she was told to go back and get initials even though there was not a line for initials. That to me is just one example of the answer i got from both escrow officers and closers. GET INITIALS if its a document which perhaps would not record if initials were missing. More is better than less.
Lender told her to go back for initials and SOS told her to get initials, so I fail to see the argument that less is better than more.

Reply by Jon on 6/8/05 2:41pm
Msg #43250

Re: Confusing!

I have asked many different escrow and title co if initials are required and it is dependent on the person you ask. I have even asked two different people in the same office and got different answers. I have also been told not to get initials unless there is a space for it.

Ca DOES NOT require initials on every DOT to record. It is the personal preference of the co or escrow agent. I have worked with 100's of different lender, title, and escrow co and never had a problem except for one time when I was told not to have B's initial unless there was space for it.

If the co you work for wants you to initial every page, do it, but don't say that it is required for everyone because it is not. If you can cite the law or regulation that says it is required, I will gladly change to your side.

Reply by ERNA_CA on 6/8/05 2:54pm
Msg #43255

Re: Confusing! Jon

We are hearing about notaries having to go back to get initials on DOT and there was no line for initials and no pacific instruction to get initials. Have you ever heard of a DOT not recording because of it having initials?

Reply by Jon on 6/8/05 2:57pm
Msg #43257

Re: Confusing! Jon

YES, I had to go back and re-sign a DOT in CA because the lender did not want initials on every page.

Reply by ERNA_CA on 6/8/05 3:02pm
Msg #43260

Re: Confusing! Jon

"Lender"
Bet it would have recorded with the initials though.

Reply by Jon on 6/8/05 3:06pm
Msg #43264

Re: Confusing! Jon

Have you ever know a DOT without spaces for initials to NOT record because it was missing initials?? Or was it the lender or title co preference???

Reply by ERNA_CA on 6/8/05 3:12pm
Msg #43265

Re: Confusing! Jon

Yes I have heard of DOT beiing sent back for lack of Initials.

Reply by Jon on 6/8/05 3:24pm
Msg #43268

Re: Confusing! Jon

Being sent back for lack of initials when there was a space for them, or when there was not a space for them??

Are you sure the title co didn't just tell you what they thought you needed to hear to get you to do what they want?

Reply by ERNA_CA on 6/8/05 3:29pm
Msg #43270

Re: Confusing! Jon

It didn't happen to me(I always get initials) but I was told by an Escrow officer that a DOT was sent back for lack of initials, hence loan got held up. It can happen, I have no idea if it had a line for initials or not, did not ask that question.

Reply by AngelinaAZ on 6/8/05 3:31pm
Msg #43271

Re: Confusing! Jon

In both experiences, there was no space for initials.

Were you talking to me?

Reply by Jon on 6/8/05 3:36pm
Msg #43273

Re: Confusing! Jon

I'm really not trying to be argumentative, I just want to know because I have done over 8000 loans and this has never been a problem. If there is some law that requires initials, then there are a lot of loans that I've done that shouldn't have been recorded.

If there is a place for initials and they are left blank, that could be considered an incomplete document due to the "blank" spaces and rejected for recording. If there are no spaces for initials, then the document has no "blank" spaces and shouldn't be rejected for that reason.

Reply by Anonymous on 6/8/05 3:40pm
Msg #43275

THE HORSE HAS EXPIRED/beaten to death....N/M

Reply by Jon on 6/8/05 3:44pm
Msg #43277

So who gets in trouble for animal abuse!!!!!!......

Reply by Jon on 6/8/05 3:45pm
Msg #43279

Supposed to be ?????.....n/m

Reply by AngelinaAZ on 6/8/05 3:48pm
Msg #43281

Probably Me! I've seen a lot of it lately! n/m

Reply by SamIam_CA on 6/8/05 4:05pm
Msg #43288

Re: Probably Me! I've seen a lot of it lately!

First the goat and now this. What a week you're having!

Reply by AngelinaAZ on 6/8/05 4:15pm
Msg #43294

Re: Probably Me! I've seen a lot of it lately!

Yeah, I've got that zip code marked off of my chart with a big NO WAY on it just in case it's something in the water!

Reply by ERNA_CA on 6/8/05 4:22pm
Msg #43296

Re: Angelina, tomorrow is another day, just keep :) n/m

Reply by AngelinaAZ on 6/8/05 4:24pm
Msg #43297

Re: You too Erna :) n/m

Reply by CaliNotary on 6/8/05 5:27pm
Msg #43319

It was a SHEEP!!!

I guess Sam was the first one of us to get the mental image of the sheep/redneck sex out of her mind. Way to go girl!

Reply by You are .... on 6/8/05 8:53pm
Msg #43383

Re: ERNA

a DIP. I have NEVER seen such poor grammar, spelling, & WRONG information from one person. JMHO

Reply by ERNA_CA on 6/8/05 3:56pm
Msg #43286

Re: Confusing! Jon

That is the key Jon when there is a gray area in our business there is no correct answer, we can only each give our two cents based on experience but ultimately each one has to make their own decisions as to what works.

Reply by Anonymous on 6/8/05 5:52pm
Msg #43324

Re: Confusing! Jon

Previously you wrote, #43206 One of the quiestions some ss ask to find out if you know your job is about initials on DOT.....Intl. every page then sign last page is the corect answear, here in CA anyway. Now you say there is no correct answer. You are the weakest link - goodbye!

Reply by ERNA_CA on 6/8/05 6:02pm
Msg #43326

Re: Coward

My experience and happened in CA. You need anything else clarified? By all means spend all day picking through my posts if you think its so important. Ask away and you can call me a few names while your at it if it gives you pleasure. Be my guest. You could use your name instead of hiding, but cowards with nothing useful to say usually hide.

Reply by CaliNotary on 6/8/05 5:06pm
Msg #43312

Re: Confusing! Jon

" I was told by an Escrow officer that a DOT was sent back for lack of initials"

And now you've been told by a fellow signing agent that a DOT was sent back because initials were there that shouldn't have been there. And you've also been told by a fellow signing agent that a RTC was sent back because initials were there that shouldn't have been there.

Isn't that enough to make it abundantly clear to you that *sometimes* it's a bad thing to get initials if they don't ask for them?

And, your English lesson for the day (and yes, I know it's not your first language, this is just helpful information for you) the word is "specific" or "specifically", not "pacifically"

Reply by ERNA_CA on 6/8/05 5:15pm
Msg #43315

Re: Confusing! Jon

Spelling aside, you are not making any sense. Go back and read the original posters post and stop concentrating on me, unless your just trying to make points with someone.
I repeat I gave my two cents for the benefit of the original poster, get over it Cali.
Like they said the horse is dead. And the original poster got what she wanted, different ideas based on different experiences. I am sure she doesn't need any additional spelling comments or anything else you have to offer.

Reply by CaliNotary on 6/8/05 5:25pm
Msg #43317

Re: Confusing! Jon

So far you've made 30 posts in this thread, you're still continuing to post in it, and you have the nerve to tell ME "the horse is dead"????

Too freaking funny. Self awareness isn't one of your stronger points, is it?

Reply by ERNA_CA on 6/8/05 5:32pm
Msg #43321

Re: Get over your self Cali.

Reply by Anonymous on 6/8/05 8:11pm
Msg #43372

Re: I repeat I gave my two cents for the benefit ...

youve spent several dollars now and you are still wrong

Reply by JanetK/CA on 6/9/05 9:36pm
Msg #43682

Re: Confusing! - I AGREE w/ Sam

(Hope I've kept track of who's who correctly...) In case anyone is like me and just now getting to this thread (I can't believe I've actually read this far!), I happen to have on my desk at this moment a set of documents that do not request initials and will be rejected by the lender (NOT the Recorder) if ANY stray marks not requested are on any page, including the DOT. Hence, we will not be initialing every page of the DOT.

One thing I've learned in the years I've been doing this is that there are very few absolutes in our business. Correct procedure could depend on the state, the county (or whatever), the lender or the title/escrow company. The only right answer is what your client wants - at least, we hope so! ;>) (Most of us have already learned that sometimes "the client" doesn't know what they really want, either!!)

Reply by CarolynCO on 6/8/05 2:27pm
Msg #43238

Re: Confusing! - I disagree w/ Sam

Erna insists **Yes, more is always better than less, ask any closer.**

Incorrect.

Reply by ERNA_CA on 6/8/05 2:32pm
Msg #43242

Re: Confusing! - I disagree w/ Sam

Really Carolyn then why is the original poster having to go back for initials that were not pacifically asked for. You all seem to be getting away from the original post and just bent on disagreeing ???

Reply by CarolynCO on 6/8/05 2:34pm
Msg #43244

Re: Confusing! - I disagree w/ Sam

Erna, you are the one bent on disagreeing. As I've posted 2-3 times in the past 5 minutes, if in doubt, CALL THE LOAN OFFICER WHILE AT THE TABLE. And YES, I meant to shout!

Reply by CaliNotary on 6/8/05 2:38pm
Msg #43247

Re: Confusing! - I disagree w/ Sam

Good lord Erna, just because this one particular company does it this way doesn't make it an industry standard, or even correct.

If you think that this one example is proving your "more is always better than less" theory to be correct, you are sadly mistaken.

Reply by ERNA_CA on 6/8/05 2:46pm
Msg #43251

Re: Confusing! - I disagree w/ Sam

Cali, is this post suppose to be giving the original poster inside into our experience as to more or less. Or is it just to prove that the way she did it and you do it is always correct???? She did it your way.less.and she got in trouble. Now why don't you direct it to wards her, tell her just get less and if you have to go back ask for more money. Now I am not telling anyone how to do things, Only passing on what I have experienced and the answers I have received from people working in the escrow lending title business. No-one has to take my word for anything, I am just putting in my two cents, so no need for you to get in a tizzy.

Reply by Jon on 6/8/05 2:48pm
Msg #43252

Re: Confusing! - I disagree w/ Sam

The original poster also said that the AZ SOS told them to initial. It may be a state thing. If you call the SOS for the state of CA, I guarantee you they will not have a position one way or the other as it is not stipulated by law.

Reply by CAtitlegal on 6/8/05 2:59pm
Msg #43258

Whatever works

As long as the lender/SS is happy = a procedure that works.

Reply by ERNA_CA on 6/8/05 3:03pm
Msg #43262

Re: Whatever works /I agee CAtitlegal.........n/m

Reply by AngelinaAZ on 6/8/05 3:12pm
Msg #43267

AZ SOS

In Arizona it is not stipulated by law either. They 'highly recommended the initials' to protect the document, the signer and me... but it is not required to record.

Hence the discussion. If it was required by law I would be doing it all the time, every time and if they didn't want it... Oh well. That was not the case.

I just wanted to find a way to not have to call the lender to verify and I DON'T want to go back to a signing and I DON'T want to argue about money for sending me back.

It isn't really clear cut. I want to give the lenders their preference but I feel that if they don't make it known then that is their problem. It was made to be my problem.

Reply by ERNA_CA on 6/8/05 3:25pm
Msg #43269

Re: AZ SOS

"Highly recommended the initials to protect the document the signer and me"
That is my reasoning as well as not being sent out a second time to get initials.
As you said it becomes our problem regardless.

Reply by CaliNotary on 6/8/05 2:29pm
Msg #43239

Re: Confusing! - I disagree w/ Sam

"Yes, more is always better than less, ask any closer."

There is no *always* in this business. Every company has their little quirks of how they do things and what may be perfectly acceptable for one company could be a huge issue for another company.

Reply by ERNA_CA on 6/8/05 1:02pm
Msg #43201

Better more than less. I have them initial everything that dose not have a signature if it pretains to them. As I am resposible for giving them a copy. DOT requiers a intital on every page then signature on last page, no exceptions as far as I know.

Reply by ERNA_CA on 6/8/05 1:07pm
Msg #43203

Re: DOT Issues... Help!!!! in CA anyway

Reply by BrendaTx on 6/8/05 4:38pm
Msg #43299

No Chest Thumper...No arrogant Texan...No Hugh/Brenda ...

And this thread still went sideways.

Hallelujah.

Okay...everyone carry on.

Reply by ERNA_CA on 6/8/05 4:40pm
Msg #43300

Re: No Chest Thumper...No arrogant Texan...No Hugh/Brenda ...

You had your lil helper to make sure it did.

Reply by BrendaTx on 6/8/05 4:43pm
Msg #43303

What helper? n/m

Reply by ERNA_CA on 6/8/05 4:48pm
Msg #43305

Re: What helper? n/m

The one that doesn't want to be a newbie but wants to go strait past go and directly to the self proclaimed (elite) group. No further explanation warranted, as noted by all. Have got plenty of phone calls on that one

Reply by BrendaTx on 6/8/05 5:03pm
Msg #43311

Re: What helper? n/m

I have to leave and go to the love city of Rockdale, Texas. When I return, I am going to see what all the fuss is about.

**Have got plenty of phone calls on that one**

You mean me and my sad little notary friends, aren't the only ones with lives so unexciting that we'd discuss NotRot via email and on the phone??

Man, this is great. I don't have to be burdened with this shameful secret any longer. I'm ALIVE!

Reply by BrendaTx on 6/8/05 5:06pm
Msg #43313

Re: What helper? n/m- SPELLING Police

**love city of Rockdale, Texas.**

Meant the LOVELY city of Rockdale, Texas.

Rockdale seems to be the birthing place of really good football coaches...and, in Texas...that's something (I guess) to be very "lovely" about.

Reply by Anonymous on 6/8/05 8:21pm
Msg #43376

Re: What helper? n/m- SPELLING Police

"**love city of Rockdale, Texas.**

Meant the LOVELY city of Rockdale, Texas."

love city, lovely city -- I'm peeing in my pants

Reply by ERNA_CA on 6/8/05 5:07pm
Msg #43314

Re: What helper? n/m

How did I know it would give you a trill? This forum is an open book. Has all the lements life brings. THE GOOD THE BAD AND THE UGLY.
Nothing new.

Reply by CaliNotary on 6/8/05 5:20pm
Msg #43316

Re: What helper? n/m

"The one that doesn't want to be a newbie but wants to go strait past go and directly to the self proclaimed (elite) group"

You really need to learn the meaning of "self proclaimed". When you're naming a group the "elite group" that's quite the opposite of self proclaimed.

And you're really kind of a pigheaded bitch as well. You're every bit as snotty and unreasonable and know-it-allish as you seem to think this "elite" group is. Unfortunately for us all, you tend to use 10 times as many posts to do it.

Reply by ERNA_CA on 6/8/05 5:30pm
Msg #43320

Re: What helper? n/m

But unlike you I don't post to call others names and start personal attacks on others but put in my two cents for the benefit of the original poster which can disregard anything I say or use it as just what it is. My experience.
For you to call anyone names is just hilarious, you surly have shown by your post to be just what you so eagerly called me, which I won't repeat as I don't use that kind of language.
You having a bad day and you have chosen me to bash. Bash ahead, it doesn't bother me, as it doesn't hurt me only you as you are behaving badly.

Reply by CaliNotary on 6/8/05 6:46pm
Msg #43347

Re: What helper? n/m

"Bitch" is a word that can be heard on TV pretty much any time of the day. I'm sure your eyes can handle it.

And your lack of self awareness continues to amaze me. You quite pointedly insulted Sam I Am, so please come down off of your sanctimonious high horse. It was as much a "personal attack" as anything I've posted in this thread.

And when did I ever say I wasn't bitchy? I'm sure you can pull up several posts of mine on this board where I specifically say that I am bitchy. But so are you sweetie, you might as well own it.

Reply by ERNA_CA on 6/8/05 6:48pm
Msg #43348

Re: get over your self Cali

Reply by AngelinaAZ on 6/8/05 5:53pm
Msg #43325

Re: Speaking of Newbies

I have my own special classification schedule that I got from watching Deadliest Catch on Discovery.

Newbie - Somewhere between applying for their commission and their 2nd loan. Wide eyed, anticipating the glory of becoming a prestigious Alaskan King Crab Fisherman aka. NSA.

Greenhorn - Somewhere between 2 and 200 loans. They get the crap jobs, no respect from the deckhands, they are berated by the deckboss and they are ignored completely by the captain. They are the hardest working and have to gut the fish, bait the pots, clean the deck and maybe... just maybe they will start to earn a small percentage. This is not to say that we all don't work hard on the boat but hopefully, with experiece comes smooth sailing. (There is no more racing to the manual every five seconds to verify or staring at the wording on something going... WAIT... WHAT?)

Deckhand - Somewhere between 200-1000 loans. You have earned your spurs and do a good job. Mistakes are rare and you know how to hang on to the boat when it rolls and can get into your survival suit in less than 50 seconds. Your percentage is getting bigger and you are seeing the payday.

Deckboss- 1000-3000 loans. You are seeing the fruits of your labors. Your percentage is bigger and even the captains of the other boats give you respect. You have disdain for the greenhorn with an attitude, unspoken respect for a greenhorn with goals and gumption and you only hazily remember... somewhere in the back of your mind what it was like to be a sweet newbie.

Captain- 3000+ You are in the money. All the time you spent of mapping the ocean floor and sinking your pots deep is paying off. Others depend on your expertise and your reputation precedes you. You look back at the end of a season at the crab in your hold and say... Ah yes, I am good at what I do!

Alaskan Fish and Game=Signing Services They come in and spoil it all. They change the rules of the game to get themselves a peice of the pot and instead of being useful they say... 'I don't have copies of those docs so I better call so-and-so to check on that... better yet, here's the number why don't you call them so I can go back to my show.' Yes, it is nice to see money well earned.

Reply by Anonymous on 6/8/05 4:40pm
Msg #43301

:) CARCASS OFF TO GLUE FACTORY!

Reply by ERNA_CA on 6/8/05 4:51pm
Msg #43306

Re: :) CARCASS OFF TO GLUE FACTORY!

Now you know sniffin glue isnt good for ya

Reply by SamIam_CA on 6/8/05 4:53pm
Msg #43308

Re: No Chest Thumper...No arrogant Texan...No Hugh/Brenda ...

Just doing my part to spread the love.

Reply by Julie-MI on 6/8/05 5:47pm
Msg #43323

Why...........

...........would you call the SOS's office for a question that does not fall under the SOS's jurisdiction? If anything, it would be a state/county recording question, not a notarial one--especially margin issues with the recorder.

The SOS (even though I don't live in that state) have anything to do with initialing a DOT?

I do it the way the issuer of my paycheck wants it. I don't inital unless instructed.

The borrowers are given copies of their DOT at closing, so any chicken little syndrom bologna about substuting pages or loan fraud is just silly. They borrowers could easily see if there was a problem. I'm so thankful to be a Michigan notary!

Reply by AngelinaAZ on 6/8/05 6:02pm
Msg #43327

Re: Why...........

I didn't say that I called the SOS with a margin question. I already know the AZ laws regarding margins on recordable docs and they are stringent.

I called the SOS, regarding the Notorial Etiquette of notarizing a recordable document that was multiple pages. I wanted to know if they had some rules or regs that I missed. I didn't even say it was a DOT until they asked.

Arizona is the leading state in the nation for ID theft, ID fraud, and loan fraud... I guess I wish I were a Michigan notary too!

Reply by Julie-Mi on 6/8/05 6:19pm
Msg #43334

Re: Why...........

From your first post, I gathered you called the AZ SOS regarding initialing. My point, is that the SOS notary division has nothing to do with initialing a document.

I didn't know AZ had notarial etiquette, which is why I refrain from commenting on non-Michigan issues.

Reply by Grammy824/NC on 6/8/05 9:11pm
Msg #43384

Re: DOT - Check the certification course handbook

In the Notary Signing Agent Certification Course handbook, page 269, #7, it states "In the sample Deed of Trust, the borrower must initial each page except for the signature page." I always go by these instructions.

Reply by CAtitlegal on 6/8/05 10:02pm
Msg #43389

After an entire day...

of absolutely NO resolution to the issue of initialling DOT's (whether you sit in the camp of "less" or "more"), hurling personal insults, intolerance of language issues, disagreements, jokes, story telling etc...I vote that this thread be officially put to rest. If you second that, please just don't respond! (please)