Posted by NY Notary on 6/28/05 10:55pm
Msg #48684

Does anyone know?

Is California the only state that allows thenotary to use the wording in another state's acknowledgment as it say in the following. Anybody? Any State? Also, how would you define substanially different or substantially the same....in the case of wording.


Out-of-State Acknowledgment.
California Notaries have the authority to execute acknowledgments using wording other than California's "all-purpose" acknowledgment wording if the document involved is to be filed in another U.S. state or jurisdiction. In addition, the wording provided may not require the Notary to make certifications not allowed by law, such as guaranteeing a signer's representative capacity. The out-of-state certificate may refer to the capacity claimed by the signer, but the Notary may not certify that the signer does, in fact, have the authority to sign under the claimed capacity (Civil Code, Section 1189). The capacity of the signer may be included in the wording, but not certified by the Notary.

Reply by PAW_Fl on 6/29/05 6:25am
Msg #48717

Most of FL statutes, that deal with proving execution, recording, etc., have provisions for out of state and out of country documents. Some are within the notary laws themselves and some are within the sections that deal with the subject of the document, such as deeds and mortgages (covered under Real Property laws).

Reply by NY Notary on 6/29/05 8:04am
Msg #48730

Florida acknowledgment is relatively simple compared to NY. Can you use the NY wording if you just add the type of identification used? California says use any state's wording to sum it up.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 6/29/05 8:11am
Msg #48731

As long as it contains the 9 elements needed for a Florida certificate it is fine, so if the only thing missing is the identification presented, we can add that.

The certificate must contain:

1) The venue (location of the notarization)
2) Type of notarial act (acknowledgement or oath/affirmation)
3) The signer personally appeared before the notary ("before me")
4) The name(s) of the signer(s)
5) The actual date of the notarization
6) The form of identification used to identify the signer/s
7) The signature of the notary
8) The name of the notary printed/typed/stamped below the signature.
9) The notary seal.

Reply by NY Notary on 6/29/05 8:46am
Msg #48741

Thank you.

Reply by Gerry_VT on 6/29/05 7:33am
Msg #48725

Vermont

In the part of the Vermont statutes that deal with real estate (Vermont Statutes : TITLE 27 Property : CHAPTER 5. CONVEYANCE OF REAL ESTATE : Subchapter 2. Execution and Acknowledgment : § 379. Acknowledgment out of state) it states as follows:
<begin quote>
(a) If deeds and other conveyances, and powers of attorney for the conveyance of lands, the acknowledgment or proof of which is taken out of state, are certified agreeably to the laws of the state, province or kingdom in which such acknowledgment or proof is taken, they shall be as valid as though the same were taken before a proper officer or court in this state. The proof of the same may be taken, and the same acknowledged with like effect before a justice, magistrate or notary public within the United States or in a foreign country, before a commissioner appointed for that purpose by the governor of this state, or before a minister, charge d'affaires, consul or vice consul of the United States in a foreign country.

(b) Acknowledgments for deeds and other conveyances, and powers of attorney for the conveyance of lands, which are taken out of state before a proper officer of this state, shall be valid as if taken within the state.
<end quote>

Reply by NY Notary on 6/29/05 8:00am
Msg #48729

Re: Vermont

I don't think this applies. What I am asking is as it says for the California law. Does your state allow you to use the acknowledgment wording that is supplied by another state or does it insist that you use your own state's wording? I found it interesting that California with its more rigid laws allows the use of other states wording.

Reply by Gerry_VT on 6/29/05 8:16am
Msg #48735

Re: Vermont

If you look in the Vermont Notary Guide published on the web by the Vermont Secretary of State (http://vermont-archives.org/notary/notindex.htm) you will find the following passage:

<begin quote>
While Vermont law does not presently require a particular form for acknowledgment, the following is offered as typical:
STATE OF ___________________)
COUNTY OF ____________________)ss.


On this ____ day of ________________, 20__, before me personally appeared (name of person acknowledging) to me known to be the person who executed the foregoing instrument, and he (she) thereupon duly acknowledged to me that he (she) executed the same to be his (her) free act and deed.

(Notary signs here)
<end quote>

Since Vermont does not have any wording in its statutes, your question does not apply to Vermont.

Reply by NY Notary on 6/29/05 8:48am
Msg #48743

Re: Vermont

Thanks Gerry_VT. So essentially because your state allows, you could using the wording on a mortgage from either NY or FL just by changing the venue? Yes.

Reply by Gerry_VT on 6/29/05 4:09pm
Msg #48845

Re: Vermont

NY Notary asked: "So essentially because your state allows, you could using the wording on a mortgage from either NY or FL just by changing the venue? Yes."

If the wording looked complete, I would use it. I don't have the expertise to know if a very short acknowledgement meets the requirements of some other state, so I would make sure it has all the essential elements traditionally used in Vermont, and shown in the VT notary handbook. That includes (1) venue, (2) date, (3) name(s) of signers, (4) statement about personal appearance, (5) statement that I was satisfied as to the signer's identity, (6) statement that the signer acknowledged the document, (7) statement that I am a notary for Vermont.

The only element that I see on some state's acknowledgement that I generally don't see in Vermont is information about how the signer was identified.

Reply by NY Notary on 6/29/05 8:22pm
Msg #48898

Re: Vermont

Thanks again for taking the time to reply.

Reply by Dogmonger, Ca on 6/29/05 8:28am
Msg #48739

According to my 2005 Notary Handbood issued by the State of

California. According to Civil Code 1189 subsection C, "On documents to be filed in another state or jurisdiction of the United States, a California notary may complete any acknowledgement form as may be required in that other state or jurisdiction on a document, provided the form does not require the notary to determine or certify that the signer holds a particular represenitive capacity or to make other determinations and certifications not allowed by California law.


For reference http://www.ss.ca.gov/business/notary/notary_2005hdbk_1stpg.htm

Reply by NY Notary on 6/29/05 9:03am
Msg #48748

Re: According to my 2005 Notary Handbood issued by the State of

Thanks for the answer. I wish all states were that clear. Assuming you don't feel the need to attach a loose ack. from CA, then would you use the Florida acknowledgment as is and take out the reference to capacity(ies) in the NY notary?

FLORIDA
The foregoing instrument was acknowledged before me this (date) by (signers of the doc), who is personally known to me or who has produced (type of id) as identification.

NEW YORK
On the (day) day of (month) in the (year) before me, the undersigned, a Notary Public in and for the said state, personally appeared (Name of Signer) personally known to me or proved to me on the basis of satisfactory evidence to be the individual(s) whose name(s) is(are) subscribed to the within instrument and acknowledged to me that he/she/they executed the same in his/her/their capacity(ies), and that by his/her/their signature(s) on the instrument, the individual(s), or the person upon behalf of which the individual(s) acted, executed the instrument.

Reply by Dogmonger, Ca on 6/29/05 9:10am
Msg #48752

My personal policy is that if it does not comply with a CA

acknowlegement, I replace it with one that does:-)

Reply by NY Notary on 6/29/05 9:16am
Msg #48757

Re: My personal policy is that if it does not comply with a CA

I understand. But please bear with me, from the legal standpoint and understanding the law and legalities.... Academically speaking , if you will: Could you use the Florida acknowledgment as is. AND, the NY acknowledgment by deleting the reference to capacity?

Thanks for your indulgence. I too would play it safe but I want to better understand the meaning of the notary law.

Reply by Dogmonger, Ca on 6/29/05 9:37am
Msg #48760

It would be easier to replace than to delete any

reference to capacity and heads off any potential problems. I would just attach my own ACK and be done with it:-)

Reply by NY Notary on 6/29/05 10:06am
Msg #48762

Re: It would be easier to replace than to delete any

I understand that. My question was academic only. Thanks for your time.

Reply by Dave_CA on 6/29/05 9:38am
Msg #48761

I would use the FL ack and not

delete anything. This acknowledgment does not ask or require that I certify capacity and so I believe it is fine just as it is.
As a 2nd issue please be aware that this only applies to acknowledgments that will be filed in another state and we can not use a non-compliant jurat in any event.

Reply by NY Notary on 6/29/05 10:07am
Msg #48763

Re: I would use the FL ack and not

Thank you. Thank you. And what would you do (academically speaking only, of course) with the NY ack?

Reply by Dave_CA on 6/29/05 12:13pm
Msg #48781

Or the NY ack

the issue as I understand it is using other States certificates. In CA we can, providing it will not be filed in CA and it does not require that we certify capacity.

Reply by NY Notary on 6/29/05 8:23pm
Msg #48899

Re: Or the NY ack

Thanks. That is a great answer. And what I was looking for if possible from other states if in fact, the same is true.

Reply by Stephen_VA on 6/29/05 11:12am
Msg #48771

Re: My personal policy is that if it does not comply with a CA

Just because the certificate uses the word 'capacity' does not mean you are notarizing the person capacity.

Reply by NY Notary on 6/29/05 8:27pm
Msg #48900

Re: My personal policy is that if it does not comply with a CA

Very true. California which uses the word as does NY is not referring to a person's capacity. Bless Notary law. Take something simple and make it complex and difficult to reallllllllllllly understand.