Posted by hammerhead on 6/16/05 3:20am
Msg #45053

Help! Borrower denies signing loan docs.

My first signing was a nightmare. The husband didn't want to sign anything. I told them I'd have to leave if they both didn't sign. The wife said she can duplicate her husband's signature, and that she's been doing so for over 20 yrs., that she'd be willing to sign for him. I apologized, and said I couldn't allow that. That's when the husband pulled out a revolver, told me he was a private dick, and would I like to see his weapon of choice. He pointed the barrel right at my face and said that gd%$#@! loan company can go to hell. I asked him if he wanted me to leave. He said "no. I'll sign their $%#@ papers. Then, he had to know what every word on every page of the 100+pp loan docs. meant. Since I cannot give legal advice (and, told him so) we called the signing company (who said I could call as many times as I need to, that they'd be there all night. After about 4 phone calls to them and 2 to the lender, we managed to get the signing completed by 11PM, a 4-hr. ordeal. My 5th call to the signing co. went unanswered. In any event, the husband went to bed cursing everybody, the wife hurried me out of their house, and with loan docs. in hand, I left as quickly as I could, lest Mr. borrower decide to show me his shotgun. One week later, I received my measly $75. Now, the lender just called me to say that Mr. borrower claims that he didn't sign the loan docs., that the loan is invalid, and he's not repaying it. What can I do? Can I lose my notary copmmission over this. They got their $50,000 less $7,000 to their credit card companies (which they had to pay as part of a structured bankruptcy settlement (under Chapter 13)as referenced in the loan docs. pkg. Also, the int. rate was not what they remember agreeing to. They did, however, sign and cash the check from the lender, who called me with Mr. Borrower's claim/accusation. What legal leg, if any, do I have to stand on. Thanks!

Reply by Barry on 6/16/05 4:44am
Msg #45055

This sounds more like fiction than fact.

Did you call the police? If not, why not? This should have been reported immediately.

Your notary commission, it seems to me, is the least of your concerns.

Reply by Reggie on 6/16/05 5:25am
Msg #45056

Did you record their signatures and id information in your journal? If you did you can prove you did the signing. And that you got their signatures to prove they did sign all the documents.

IMHO you have nothing to worry about if you did all the above.

Reggie
Kansas

Reply by BrendaTX on 6/16/05 6:18am
Msg #45062

***I own a SS. People who see only the $$$$$ to work are not the type of people I utilize in this business.***

I agree 100%.

If you get work in Texas, please see my profile--I have a great network of associates in Texas that will take care of the job right for you.

Reply by BrendaTX on 6/16/05 6:19am
Msg #45063

oops wrong threat...n/m

Reply by BrendaTX on 6/16/05 6:24am
Msg #45065

Re: oops wrong thread, not threat...and Merry...

Shoot folks...I have a job at 9, 10:30, 12, 2 and 6 pm today. Never did five in a day before. Making more money in two days this week than I did for a whole month last year at this time.

I am rushing too much. Love the NotRot...gotta have it with my coffee!

Merry, et al...stay tuned to NotRot...learn all you can...stay focused and keep the faith.

Merry, if you'll email me, I want to share something with you. It might be tonight before I can, though.

Brenda

Reply by Joan-OH on 6/16/05 6:55am
Msg #45073

I am absolutely floored that at your very first signing you had an incident with a gun in your face and you are still a signing agent?!?!?! Hammerhead, you must be one tough cookie! I can almost guarantee that would have been my LAST signing. I don't know if I would have even asked if he wanted me to leave. I would have said something more to the effect of saying "ok, you don't have to sign and gotten out of there in seconds flat before he changed his mind"

As the notary you are the official witness and I would expect you can be pulled into court to testify that you witnessed the jerk sign. I see no reason why anyone would question your credibility and I don't see why you would need a "legal leg". Leave it with the mortgage company to handle. They have all the lawyers. Too bad you didn't file charges against this guy for assault.

Joan-OH

Reply by BrendaTx on 6/16/05 7:14am
Msg #45074

*What legal leg, if any, do I have to stand on.**What can I do? Can I lose my notary copmmission over this.*

Write down your memory of it all with detail.

Consider talking to the police about what we call in Tx "terroristic threat" or something like that and recount the scene to them. That will document your concerns.

But really...I don't think this will be your problem. You did not do something wrong as a notary according to your post.

However, I do know that some notaries (bad 'uns) will allow a spouse to sign and notarize the result as if the correct person did. They'd rather do that than to wait on a spouse lagging behind in traffic.

Reply by hammerhead on 6/16/05 7:12pm
Msg #45326

Dear BrendaTx,

Thankyou for your very helpful post. The husband is actually telling the loan co. that I allowed the wife to sign. I did no such thing. However, I did pause the signing to use their restroom, and when I came back, the rest of the forms were signed. I didn't tell them to do that, but, nor did I expect that they would. They asked me if that was okay? When I called the signing co. to inquire, the agent who answered the phone asked if the signatures matched the ones in my book. I checked, they did, I told him so, and he said that was fine, to go ahead with the signing. As to the reason why I didn't file assault or terroristic threatening charges against this guy, he was only showing me his gun. He just didn't know how to hold it, I guess. I wasn't sure he was angry with me due to the loan co. but, I felt it was more professional to complete the job that I agreed to do, than to assume the negative. As to being in in just for the money, I only received $75 and will happily donate all of it to any charity. I truly am in this first, because I love the real estate and mortgage business. I meet all kinds of interesting people, and the work is fun. That it also pays a fair wage is an added bonus. But, my only recourse with these bad borrowers seems to be legal. I do remember while I was there, at the signing, that when the husband signed my book, he took a long time to sign, and that his signature was very identical to his wifes. Could it be that they were trying to set me up for a later scam so that they could contest the loan cos. validity to recollect on the funds? This was my first signing, so I am unknowledgeable about this whole process. Thankyou for your help. I sure appereciate any reply you can give me. hammerhead

Reply by Cris_AR on 6/16/05 7:16pm
Msg #45330

I would not have left the room, You must witness the signing. I cannot remember where but I read about a case where the signing agent left the room and did not witness.
Sounds like you may have been set up, who knows.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 6/16/05 7:48am
Msg #45081

I would not have asked if he wanted me to leave.
I would have packed up and left, with my hand on a canister of pepper spray just in case!

Reply by Dmartz_IN on 6/16/05 8:24am
Msg #45087

I to would have left. When i got in my car it would have been a 911 call and Mr. Private Dick would be setting in jail. I didn't catch what state you were in but here in Indiana that was a felony charge on top of a few other things he would have been charged with. He would have needing this loan to fund to pay for his Lawyer and to pay you for the civil suit that i would have made had against him.

Reply by Nancy in Florida on 6/16/05 9:01am
Msg #45093

I agree with Syliva, I would not have given him an opportunity to change his mind about signing, I would have left immediately and called 911.

Reply by DellaCa on 6/16/05 1:07pm
Msg #45209

Amen to that Sylvia!

Reply by Virginia on 6/16/05 9:18am
Msg #45097

Wow..now that was a story!

First..the MINUTE he pulled the revolver out and pointed it in your face you had every professional right to leave! For safety purposes, it may not have been wise to leave that very moment but once he somewhat calmed down you should have been out of there! Leave now get to safety, explain later! Then as soon as you got in your car and on the road a call should be made to the SS and lender to tell them in detail why you left and what the borrowers were like. Typically, SS's want you to call AT the signing table with the borrowers around but this was an exception to the rule. Most signing services and companies we work for would be understanding of a situation like yours as long as you call them as soon as possible and explain the situation and keep them informed. Plus, I'm sure the lender was already aware of what type of man (crazy) this borrower was either once you got there (by the borrowers constant phone calls and attitude toward the loan)or possible even before you got to the table during the application process. The borrower most likely displayed some questionable behavior.

All of his cussing, and clowning was a good indicator that he may have tricks before or after the loan closed. He did have tricks up his sleave indicated by him saying he did NOT sign the loan docs. That's not a surprise by his behavior when you were there, but you as a notary can't control that part of the situation. As long as you got proper ID from the borrower with copies for the loan pkg and followed your states notarial laws you should be fine. The borrower is attempting to commit fraud and it's up to the lender or whoever to investigate that part of the deal. There's nothing you can do unless or until the courts contact you regarding this issue. Hopefully, you do have E&O insurance or a bond just in case you do have legal problems behind this.

Good luck... and in the future your personal safety should be first!

Reply by Anonymous on 6/16/05 9:55am
Msg #45110

MY GOD! You were worried about loosing your commission?? YOU could of loose your life, not the your commission, I would of run from their home at that time, even leaving back all my seals and notary staff if wasnt able to get them. I would called 911 from their front lawn and waited for police in a safe place. File charges, this is not a simple assault, it murder atempt.

Reply by Ogdoad on 6/16/05 10:03am
Msg #45117

That's F#$%ed Up! I'd take it as a sign your in the wrong business bubba...Run for your life!

Reply by Melody on 6/16/05 11:04am
Msg #45132

Yet another reason to get thumbprints.

How awful for you!

I agree with Brenda that you should write everything down. I agree with the other gal who said you should give a report to the police.

I hope you got thumbprints. That helps prove identity of signers.

Since they cashed the check, it will be hard for them to get anyone to believe the "didn't sign" story.

Good luck!

Reply by Sheila Meinecke on 6/16/05 12:58pm
Msg #45205

Re: Yet another reason to get thumbprints.

Your next signings can only get better. Glad you are safe

Reply by Sam on 6/16/05 11:23am
Msg #45141

Another great story from Angelina? n/m