Posted by CaSigner on 6/26/05 12:22pm
Msg #47924

Help with wording

It's for a "Affidavit As To Real Estate" I need help with the blanks.

"... On this 25 day of June, 2005, before me, the undersigned a Notary Public, personally appeared John Smith and Jane Smith to me known to be the persons described in and who executed the foregoing instruments, and acknowledged that ________ executed the same as _______ free act and deed.

And then there is no space to put my seal at the bottom without going over existing wording. so Ineed to attach either and CA all Purpose Acknowledgement or a CA Jurat with Affiant Statement.

Yes, I did a search which obviously didn't help.

Reply by John_NorCal on 6/26/05 12:25pm
Msg #47926

I would attach a Calif approved jurat.

Reply by CaSigner on 6/26/05 12:28pm
Msg #47929

May I ask why a jurat and not an Ack? I'm not second guessing you but that is what I thought first as well and then I remembered that if the document has the words "Sworm or Swear" attach a Jurat. If it says Acknowledge anywhere than it's an acknowledgement. Your comments please...

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 6/26/05 12:31pm
Msg #47933

As you are not allowed to decide the type of certificate to use, and it is an acknowledgment on the document, I would attach a CA all purpose acknowledgment.



Here in Fl. if the wording in the document said "duly sworn" or something similar I would replace the ack with a jurat.

Reply by John_NorCal on 6/26/05 7:17pm
Msg #48010

Re: Help with wording, sorry, didn't read post clearly....

should use an all purpose ack.

Reply by Barry/FL on 6/26/05 12:25pm
Msg #47927

"they" & "their"

Reply by CaSigner on 6/26/05 12:28pm
Msg #47930

they or their is not on the wording at all

Reply by Barry/FL on 6/26/05 1:27pm
Msg #47942

I believe those are the words you need to fill in the blanks about which you inquired.

Reply by CaSigner on 6/26/05 4:21pm
Msg #47972

Ahhh, well that would explain why I didn't understand your comment. So is this a jurat or an acknowledgement? Do you know? The reason I ask is because there is no room at all for me to apply my stamp so I need to attach either a jurat or acknowlegment form. Thanks

Reply by SarahBeth_CA on 6/26/05 4:26pm
Msg #47977

from Websters:
Main Entry: af·fi·da·vit
Pronunciation: "a-f&-'dA-v&t
Function: noun
Etymology: Medieval Latin, he has made an oath, from affidare
: a sworn statement in writing made especially under oath or on affirmation before an authorized magistrate or officer

affidavit=use jurat

Reply by CaliNotary on 6/26/05 4:37pm
Msg #47984

But there was an acknowledgement on the affadavit. It's not our place to decide that it should be changed to a jurat.

Reply by JanetK/CA on 6/27/05 1:32am
Msg #48055

Again, I agree with CaliNotary. I go by what is in the notarial wording - not by the title of the document. I've often seen documents called an affidavit with acknowledgement wording. I would never presume to change it to a jurat based on a document title. If there is additional wording implying an oath, I'd inquire with the title co. (or do both).

BTW, with the wording given ("who I know to be..."), I would have attached a loose certificate even if there was room for the stamp, unless the individuals were personally known to me and I did not ID them. If ID was used, then I believe it should have the "satisfactory evidence" wording, etc. used in California.

Reply by Barry/FL on 6/26/05 5:33pm
Msg #47992

If it says "Acknowledged before me" then you know. If it says "Subscribed and sworn," then it is a jurat.

Reply by CaliNotary on 6/26/05 4:24pm
Msg #47976

You'd be wrong Barry, that wording isn't legal in California. You need to be careful about giving advice like that to people outside of FL.

Reply by Barry/FL on 6/26/05 7:44pm
Msg #48017

I don't mind being corrected, but if you have the right answer, then feel free to shed some light.

Reply by Barry/FL on 6/26/05 8:07pm
Msg #48020

A jurat is always an oath or affirmation unless you have some information about CA where I do not have the knowledge; otherwise the advice I gave, while it is not the exact 2005 wording for CA, still captures the basic differences between the acknowledgement and a jurat.



State of California
County of ___________ } ss.


Subscribed to and sworn to (or affirmed) before me

this __________ day of __________, 2005 by

________________________________________,

personally known to me or proved to me on the

basis of satisfactory evidence to be the person(s)

who appeared before me.

________________________________________
Signature of the Notary

Actually, there is very little difference between the CA and FL jurats. I believe; however, I gave the correct information to help distinguish the difference.

Reply by CaliNotary on 6/26/05 4:27pm
Msg #47978

Why the confusion? When the wording says "acknowledged" in it, isn't it pretty clear that it's an acknowledgement and not a jurat?

Reply by CaSigner on 6/26/05 4:33pm
Msg #47982

No where in the document does it state Sworm or Subscribed. It does state acknowledged so I attached a CA All Purpose Ack form. I understand the "Affidavit" in the title might imply a jurat but I saw no jurat wording. It's the word acknowledge that caught my eye.

Reply by CaliNotary on 6/26/05 4:38pm
Msg #47986

Don't overthink it, if they have an acknowledgement on the page, then that's all you need to be concerned about.

Reply by SarahBeth_CA on 6/26/05 4:47pm
Msg #47988

If the doc has the word Affidavit in it's title it is saying this is a sworn statement. I understand that the word "acknowledge" would catch your eye. However the wording is wrong even if it says acknowledge in it. I would've attatched a jurat. The best thing would be to find out from the recieving agency what they want. Since it's already done would you let us know what the outcome is?

Reply by CaSigner on 6/26/05 5:20pm
Msg #47991

Yes, the signing was on Saturday when no one at the title company could be reached. I just took a chance and made a decision. The borrowers signed the document so worst case senario I exchange it with a jurat after I talk with the title company tomorrow. Of course the acknowledgment I attached has their thumbprint and the jurat won't if I make the exchange but as long as they signed the original document I should be fine.

Reply by SarahBeth_CA on 6/26/05 6:49pm
Msg #47999

Of course it happens when no one is available. I don't understand what you mean by "of course the acknowledgment has thier thumbprint". CA acks don't have a place for thumbprints and don't require one on them.

Reply by SarahBeth_CA on 6/26/05 6:50pm
Msg #48000

and.... The only place a thumbprint is required is in the journal for a deed, quit claim deed, or deed of trust.

Reply by Barry/FL on 6/26/05 8:16pm
Msg #48024

Thumb print is usually on the optional side of the lose certificates.

Reply by PAW_Fl on 6/27/05 9:16am
Msg #48088

>>> If the doc has the word Affidavit in it's title it is saying this is a sworn statement. <<<

Titles of documents are meaningless and often imply incorrect actions to be taken. There are many statements, disclosures and other instruments that are title "affidavit" but are no more an affidavit than a marriage license.

The determining factor of whether or not an acknowledgment or jurat needs to be attached to an existing document is predicated on what the original author, custodian or recipient has already provided on the instrument. If the existing notarial certificate states "acknowledged", then an acknowledgment certificate is what is needed. If the existing notarial certificate states" sworn" or "affirmed", then a jurat would be required. Again, this is regardless of what the title of the document may imply.

However, for **Florida**, pursuant to Florida Statutes s.117.03 Administration of oaths - The notary public may not take an acknowledgment of execution in lieu of an oath if an oath is required.

Therefore, when you have a document (usually an affidavit or an instrument containing a set of facts), the signers are swearing to, you must use a jurat certificate. If the document has the words, "duly sworn and deposes","under oath", "affiant", "swears to", etc., you, the notary, are directed by statute, to issue an oath to the signer. The confirmation that the oath was given and accepted by the signer, is the use of the jurat certificate. In the case where the document has a prepared acknowledgment that contradicts the statute, you need to strike out the acknowledgment and attach a loose jurat, or at least modify the existing wording in the certificate to make it a jurat.

Reply by Barry/FL on 6/26/05 8:15pm
Msg #48023

As far as I am concerned, you made the correct decision. It is not the notary's responsibility to change what it is the lender and/or title company wants.

If you are still uncertain, go directly to the TC to find out what they want you to do. As you can see here, there are differing opinions, so you might as well get the correct answer from the ones that gave you the assignment.

Reply by CaSigner on 6/26/05 8:30pm
Msg #48028

Got it

I am calling the TC tomorrow before I return the doc's I just wanted some imput. California law is more precise so the impute is good. Thank al for you impute.