Posted by Victoria/FL on 6/22/05 10:44pm
Msg #46997

Incorrect Notarial Certificates

Thought you guys may find this interesting. Recently my husband and I have begun real estate investing. As part of the process, I need to research public records, one of which is the mortgage. You would not believe how many notarial certificates I see that do not comply with Florida law! Additionally, many of the documents are not signed or initialed properly. I even looked up my own mortgage (in which I did prior to becoming a notary) and realized that I did not initial any of the pages correctly (only two initials instead of three, since that's how my signature reads).

Where's the "notarial police"? It's no wonder some of the instructions we receive from SS or TC are so elementary. There are a lot of notaries out there that don't know what they're doing!

Reply by PAW_Fl on 6/22/05 10:56pm
Msg #47002

That is very true. But, one thing you must remember about initialing, initials are not required by the recorders office and they don't care if the documents are initialed or not.

I too have noticed so many certificates that are not in compliance and most of the them are done by title officers and attorneys.

Reply by Victoria/FL on 6/22/05 11:02pm
Msg #47005

Right - but I'm so used to having it drilled into my head "have borrower sign exactly as printed" and "if signing with three names, must use 3 initials", it just seemed weird. Okay, so I'm a little anal - I would make a great auditor!

Mostly I noticed missing elements on the notarial certificate.

Reply by TitleGalCA on 6/22/05 10:59pm
Msg #47004

There is no notary police, except for a really good title company who checks the notary certificate prior to recording. Guess what? If they insure you, you are 'good to go', insured and all is well. Unless someone files a 'quiet title action'....but that is a whole other chapter.

Facts of life: The lender is the police. If they accept the documents, and authorize recording, a note has been signed, and the title company can insure the transaction and concurs, it is a done deal. Perfection exists in heaven, not in real estate.

Reply by Julie-MI on 6/23/05 7:29am
Msg #47056

Sounds like the recorder's office needs a better vision plan! People get paid to catch these errors.

The initialing is no big deal, as Paul said. This is usually a lender requirement not a recording requirement.

The title companies and/or signing companies make a big deal out of it, because if it doesn't record they have the hassle of contacting the notary to fix it.

Michigan has a law that states notarial error does not invalidate a document, so if the elements were not caught by Register of Deeds, the document is still valid.

Reply by PAW_Fl on 6/23/05 8:30am
Msg #47077

>>> Michigan has a law that states notarial error does not invalidate a document, so if the elements were not caught by Register of Deeds, the document is still valid. <<<

As do most states that I'm aware of. Incorrect notary certificates do not make an instrument any less valid or binding. Just like a properly done certificate will not make a document "legal".

From what I've been told by some recorders here, is that they look at four things on the mortgage:

Margins - to allow the stamping of recording information
Vesting - names on the mortgage must be on title
Legal description - must be a part of the instrument
Signature - of the "owners" as shown in the vesting

I asked, "what about the notary certificate?" Reply was that they will see if it is stamped, but that's about it. Even though just about every recording clerk is a notary public, I am amazed at how many of those clerks do not know their own notary laws.

Reply by TitleGalCA on 6/23/05 9:10am
Msg #47088

***Margins - to allow the stamping of recording information
Vesting - names on the mortgage must be on title
Legal description - must be a part of the instrument
Signature - of the "owners" as shown in the vesting

I asked, "what about the notary certificate?" Reply was that they will see if it is stamped, but that's about it. ***

All true - but for the counties I work in, the last sentence here isn't so.

I have to review docs just prior to recording ESPECIALLY for notary certs - that is the one part of the document that if it's not filled out correctly, my recording gets pulled by the recording clerk, and everybody is pissed - at me! Since I don't like EO's and lenders pissed at me, I pour over notary certs like a crazy woman. My particular county recorder looks hard at the notaries work.

Yesterday, I reviewed three TD's where 3 of 3 certs were wrong and all by the same notary. On the first one, she didn't fill in the venue. On the second one, she put the venue in the date line, and no date. On the third one, she didn't fill in her name as notary, and it wasn't pre-preprinted "the undersigned". I checked the date of her CA issuance and she had been a notary for 6 months. You'd think within six months she would have gotten it right.

I wish all my docs were notarized by pro NSA's. Would make my job so much simpler.

Reply by Julie-Mi on 6/23/05 12:02pm
Msg #47127

Part of the problem

is that the notary errors are never brought to the notary's attention.

When title companies bring the docs to the county, they fix the notary error so the notary is never aware.

When I was a proofer at ROD, you just develop know which law firms had the best secretaries/notaries. When the bad ones came through, they went to to bottom of the pile, because they ALWAYS had errors. We used to laugh and say we would never use the services of some of the firms if they could not property draft and execute a quit claim deed!

I like being on this side much better.