Posted by Stella/CA on 6/8/05 6:13pm
Msg #43331

Issues with names ...

Hi, I work for an investment firm, and sometimes I need to notarize sub docs for certain investments. I recently got my notary license for an additional qualification and I have a big signing tomorrow. I have a question, concerning the names of the investor and the entry in the acknowledgement.

The name of the investor on the docs is John Smith, however the name on the ID is John C. Smith. The person also signs as John C. Smith.

In the acknowledgement: Do I have to write John Smith or John C. Smith (provided everywhere in the doc the name is John Smith)?

I would appreciate any input and would be very greatful to any help here.

Thanks in advance!

P.S. The notary handbook and instructions don't really discuss the name issues in depth.

Reply by Stella/CA on 6/8/05 6:16pm
Msg #43333

In other words, which name does the name in the acknowledgement should match: the name on the ID, on the doc or the signature. Sometimes the name on the ID might be John Charles Smith, the name on the dos John Smith and the person signs as John C. Smith???

Thanks

Reply by ERNA_CA on 6/8/05 6:21pm
Msg #43335

Are you saying that the signature and the name on doc dose not match?

Reply by Stella/CA on 6/8/05 6:24pm
Msg #43336

They match, the person's middle initial is not included in the doc.

Reply by Stella/CA on 6/8/05 6:25pm
Msg #43337

And that's the practice in the business, the investors are written only by first and last name very often. Isn't that scary?????

Reply by ERNA_CA on 6/8/05 6:38pm
Msg #43341

I have never seen an acknowledgment where the name on the acknowledgment is different for the name of the doc. being acknowledged.
I cant find anything specifically addressing that in the law primer. Only that you must positively identify the signer, DL has a middle name but doc's don't , but that is a different matter.

Reply by Nicole_NCali on 6/8/05 6:29pm
Msg #43339

I notarize and acknowledge the full ID name. If the name on the driver's license is John Charles Smith, I acknowledge John Charles Smith, no abbreviations. I also carry this consistancy in my notary journal and request that the person sign the name as they consistantly sign all of their documents within my journal.

If the document has John C. Smith, the rule of thumb is to sign as John C. Smith on the document, but your acknowledgment should be as detailed as allowed by CA law, which puts into play the middle name that may or not appear on the identification. I always keep in mind that my journal can be subpeonaed.

Reply by Hampton/CA on 6/8/05 6:36pm
Msg #43340

I would notarize as John Smith. Many lenders and many recorders want the name in the certificate to match the name as printed on the doc. The ID supports the John Smith name, so it is OK.

I would not have him sign as John C Smith if the doc identified him as John Smith. Lenders go ape when this happens. Always sign as pre-printed.

Reply by CaliNotary on 6/8/05 6:42pm
Msg #43343

I'm with Hampton. I always fill in the acknowledgement to match whatever is printed on the docs.

Reply by Stella/CA on 6/8/05 6:46pm
Msg #43346

Ok, so I will fill the name on the acknowledgement as it is in the doc. And if the signature in the ID and my journal has a middle initial, and the doc doesn't have a middle initial (or middle name), then I will have the person sign the way he signs on the journal/ID???

Reply by Stella/CA on 6/8/05 6:43pm
Msg #43344

Hamilton/CA, you say always sign as pre-printed ... even when the signature in the ID has a middle initial and the name on the doc doesn't?

Reply by Terri - CA on 6/8/05 7:05pm
Msg #43356

If Id shows full first middle and last name, all that does is support the name as printed on the document. The signer should be instructed to sign as printed on the documents, no matter how he/she signed their driver's license. The signature on the Driver's License should match the signature in your journal, which, again, may not be what the document preparer has preprinted.

Even if the signer "over signs" i.e., signs with a middle initial, though none is preprinted, you only put the name as printed at the signature line as the name of the person you "id'd" in the acknowledgment certificate.

I'm curious Nicole have you received any feedback for writing the names as they appear on their id and not as preprinted on the document? Interesting if you have not. Lenders are generally very particular.

So particular that, I got a call from SS for a signing I did the end of May, asking why I voided my seal and sealed it again. Duh! I made a judgment call that the first seal/stamp would be rejected by the county recorder's as not being complete, so I voided it and stamped it again (this was a DOT). I also stated that it was my perogative to make that judgment call and that the DOT should record ok, as far as my notarial certificate was concerned.

Terri
Lancaster, CA

Reply by SamIam_CA on 6/8/05 7:28pm
Msg #43361

Re: Issues with names ... can you use me as an example?

Terri - My CADL has my name as Samantha Dara Coppa. I signed my CADL SDCoppa. If my loan docs come preprinted as Samantha D. Coppa

What would you write in your journal?
How would you ask me to sign the journal?
How would you ask me to sign the docs?
How would you write my name on the certificate?
I wonder if I should start writing tests for the SSs?

Reply by PAW_Fl on 6/8/05 10:52pm
Msg #43404

Re: Issues with names ... can you use me as an example?

I'm not Terri, but ...

My CADL has my name as Samantha Dara Coppa. I signed my CADL SDCoppa. If my loan docs come preprinted as Samantha D. Coppa

What would you write in your journal?
----- Samantha D. Coppa (see note below)

How would you ask me to sign the journal?
----- Samantha D. Coppa

How would you ask me to sign the docs?
----- Samantha D. Coppa

How would you write my name on the certificate?
----- Samantha D. Coppa

I wonder if I should start writing tests for the SSs?
----- Sounds like a good idea.

NOTE BELOW:
I would use the name as signed on the documents for my journal entries, but also note the name as shown on the ID. FL does not require the use of journals, so we do not have any guidance on what is required to be entered. However, by providing both forms of the name, you would know what was used as ID and how the docs were signed, as verified by the corresponding name as shown on the ID.

Reply by CAtitlegal on 6/8/05 11:00pm
Msg #43405

Re: Issues with names ... can you use me as an example?

I'll take a shot at this.

I'm signing Samantha D. Coppa for her new loan. Her loan papers are pre-printed as Samantha D. Coppa. She is going to sign Samantha D. Coppa because I've advised her to sign as the lender has preprinted the docs. Because her license shows more name (not less) than her name on the docs, I'm ok with that. My journal entry shows Samantha D. Coppa, as indentified on her CDL. My acknowledgement shows Samantha D. Coppa.

In the meantime, I'm looking at the current driver license of Samantha Dara Coppa. She appears to be approximately __ years old (no giveaways here Sam...you look 30) the gal in front of me appears to be 30. The signature looks much like the sig on the license. The address is the same as the address on the DOT. I'm good with this. I like Sam. She is friendly. She has a nice cat with short hair and I don't sneeze.

All is well...until the NR attack....

Reply by SamIam_CA on 6/8/05 11:22pm
Msg #43411

Re: Issues with names ... can you use me as an example?

Thanks Paw and TitleGal (new superhero name?), I was doing the ID first, MoJo 2nd and docs third.

I think the new trick I learned from this is to look at the docs 1st. Then look at their ID to see if the docs can be supported by the ID and vice verse. Then fill out the MoJo so the three go together like Neapolitan ice-cream.

This new way will prevent me from asking that rare borrower to sign the journal again to match the name printed on the docs. Phew - that was a mouthful!

Reply by CAtitlegal on 6/8/05 11:25pm
Msg #43413

Re: Issues with names ... can you use me as an example?

Neopolitan....my favorite. I'm heading to the fridge.

Reply by Jon on 6/8/05 7:01pm
Msg #43355

I have the signer(of any doc) sign to match the doc(provided the ID supports the name), and sign my journal the way he signs the doc.

The ack should match the way the borrower signs the doc, which should match the way my journal is signed, which should be supported by the ID(i.e. John Frank Doe can sign J.F Doe, John F Doe, John Doe, J. Frank Doe, Frank Doe or John Frank Doe as all of those variations are supported by the ID).

Reply by Stlla/CA on 6/8/05 10:35pm
Msg #43397

Thank you so much everybody!!!

Now I feel more confident :-)))

Reply by Nicole_NCali on 6/8/05 10:36pm
Msg #43398

CYA my patooty

In my acknowledgment of the DOT, I would go by what was conveniently located in the loan documents..but in doing other notarizations beyond loan documents, especially in QCD and Grant Deeds that are not associated with any loans, I ensure that the whole ID name is acknowledged.

I do work direct for one lender and I called the underwriter and esrow officer and we sat down to review what is needed per loan to close w/out problems. I also go to the county of Alameda and Contra Costa, and trust me, alot of stuff that is sent for recording is not kicked back due to notary error but to title error. APN number, exhibit A (missing), etc. After 275 loans to date, all of my loans have closed with negative problems (which by the way is not my issue)

I do alot of vin sells with questionable sellers and borrowers, I acknowledge and notarize with the mindset that someone can and will subpeona my journal and question me as to who presented themselves before me for these financial transactions,

for example, an elderly lady signed a QCD to her "daughter" I try to cover my patooty because even though this lady was willing and aware of the implications of this transaction, I can definitely smell something coming down the wind when the other siblings get a gander of this transaction. I am a military person with the mindset, cya, ensure that you cross all your t's and dot all of your i's. I get the feeling that this transaction will come back to haunt me.sooo

I also am involved in litigation in regards to a living will that was notarized by a notary for my grandfather that left everything to one relative. We as the rest of the family have subpeonaed the notary and are questioning the form of id used by this relative, "this relative is indigent and until recently had no acceptable form of ID" We are also looking into if their were others present and was my senile grandfather asked questions like willingness and awareness of what he was signing. This is all be handled by a probate lawyer, but the notary on this transaction has become a very integral part of this litigation process.

Reply by Robert E (Bob) Rogers on 6/9/05 7:36am
Msg #43439

I don't know how you would do it in California, but without getting too complicated, I would make my journal entry with the name from the identification used. If the name is John C. Smith on the DL then that is what I put in my journal. If the docs are to be signed as John Smith, then that is the name that goes in my acknowledgement. Now if the DL had only John Smith on it and the docs called for John C. Smith, they there would be an i.d. issue, but this is not the case you cited.