Posted by Dee-FL on 6/22/05 9:23pm
Msg #46977

Quit Claim Deed - Need answer quick

I did a signing that included a quit claim deed. The wife was removing the (ex) husband from the deed and refinancing the property into her name only. I had the wife and the husband to sign in the respective places and I witnessed and notarized their signatures. Today, when I got home, I had a package on my door step. Inside was a NEW quit claim deed with a note that said I (as the notary) can not witness and notarize in Florida. Also, the note said the deed needed to have 2 witnesses in Florida. They stated that I needed to go back out to the borrower. I never received a phone call that these docs were coming back to me and when I called the guy he didn't know whether the law was true or not. He just followed directions from his auditing dept. he said. Now, here's the catcher: I've done these in the past (over a year ago), and I've always witnessed and notarized AND I've always been told that in Florida you only need to have one witness who doesn't have an interest in the property. I've been told that in Florida the NOTARY can be the (1) WITNESS needed. Would someone please let me know if he's right or if I was right on this one. Thanks for your help.

Reply by Nancy in Florida on 6/22/05 9:32pm
Msg #46980

I know that in Florida there is a new law that states all Florida Mortgages must have two witnesses and one can be the notary.

Reply by Dee-FL on 6/22/05 9:49pm
Msg #46981

Where can I find that new law? Do you know the statute that it's in because I'd hate to be telling the guy that Florida only needs one witness and be wrong and not be able to read where I'm wrong (if you follow me). I thought that law was not correct and that a signing service sent out an incorrect email stating that Florida only required one witness and it could be the notary. Was it Notary Pro that sent out a correction withdrawing that statement? Someone out there remember the answer to that?

Reply by Dee-FL on 6/22/05 9:51pm
Msg #46982

Let me correct what I stated about Notary Pro. I think they sent out an email stating that Florida law required 2 witnesses on mortgage docs and then later in the week they sent out a correction stating that the law never took effect. Help me on this one, guys. Thanks.

Reply by Nancy in Florida on 6/22/05 10:13pm
Msg #46987

I am not sure about the Florida Law not going into effect. I was contacted directly by Notary Pro about 3 weeks prior to the law taking effect and to be sure to adhere to the law. Now all of the closing instructions I receive state the following regardless of the SS:

Mortgage MUST have 2 witnesses (Florida Only!!).

I never heard the law didn't go into effect. I would love to know the answer too.....

Any Florida Notary Publics that know the answer?

Reply by PAW_Fl on 6/22/05 10:25pm
Msg #46992

Nancy, here are the statutes regarding the recording of real property documents:

Florida statues do not require witnesses for mortgages.

Florida Statutes Chapter 695.03
Acknowledgment and proof; validation of certain acknowledgments; legalization or authentication before foreign officials.--To entitle any instrument concerning real property to be recorded, the execution must be acknowledged by the party executing it, proved by a subscribing witness to it, or legalized or authenticated by a civil-law notary or notary public who affixes her or his official seal, before the officers ...


However, the statutes do require two (2) witnesses for deeds that convey property

Florida Statutes Chapter 689.01 How real estate conveyed.--
No estate or interest of freehold, or for a term of more than 1 year, or any uncertain interest of, in or out of any messuages, lands, tenements or hereditaments shall be created, made, granted, transferred or released in any other manner than by instrument in writing, signed in the presence of two subscribing witnesses by the party creating, making, granting, conveying, transferring or releasing such estate, interest, or term of more than 1 year, or by the party's agent thereunto lawfully authorized, unless by will and testament, or other testamentary appointment, duly made according to law; and no estate or interest, either of freehold, or of term of more than 1 year, or any uncertain interest of, in, to or out of any messuages, lands, tenements or hereditaments, shall be assigned or surrendered unless it be by instrument signed in the presence of two subscribing witnesses by the party so assigning or surrendering, or by the party's agent thereunto lawfully authorized, or by the act and operation of law.


If one only reads Fl. s. 689.01 and does not continue on to Fl. s. 695.03, one could easily assume that two witnesses would be required for any recorded instrument concerning real property. Again, Notary Pro took the word of a recording clerk in one office in Florida, that unfortunately, had received incorrect information from the attorney in that office. Notary Pro later retracted the requirement.

I also submit the a lot of signing services have no clue about the recording requirements. Title companies should know, but even some of them do not. So even if you see a directive that states "... MUST have 2 witnesses ..." you can cite the above Florida statutes.

Reply by Nancy in Florida on 6/22/05 10:41pm
Msg #46995

Perfect timing Paw...Thank you

I had a last minute signing tonight for a borrower about ready to be forclosed upon. We did the signing in my car in a parking lot near my next signing. So I did not have access to another witness. I thought for sure my fee would be cut but I will print this out the Statute and send with my package. I will start bringing this to the attention of all the SS' that are requiring it. You have no idea how happy you have made me, for the past several weeks I have been going crazy getting another witness on the mortgages.

Thanks again!

Nancy

Reply by PAW_Fl on 6/22/05 10:15pm
Msg #46988

There never was a law to that effect. It was a misunderstanding by an attorney in one recording clerks office that didn't fully understand that only deeds that convey property required TWO witnesses, one of which can be the notary. He (or she) simply assumed that mortgages would also need to have two witnesses. That assumption was incorrect, since mortgages in Florida do not convey property ownership, only place liens against the current title.

So, all-in-all, as has been stated, yes, two witnesses (one of which can be the notary) is required for recording of the QCD, so a second trip would need to be made to properly execute the instrument. And, no, there is no need to have witnesses for mortgages that pertain to property in Florida.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 6/22/05 9:58pm
Msg #46984

There is no new law!!!!

There is no new law regarding witnesses on mortgages! Mortgages do not require witnesses.

However, Deeds - such as warranty deeds, quit claim deeds and grant deeds do require two witnesses. And you are quite correct Dee. you can be one of the witnesses!

And, always make sure the witnesses names are printed under their signature otherwise it will probably be rejected.

Reply by Dee-FL on 6/22/05 10:02pm
Msg #46985

Re: There is no new law!!!!

Thanks so much Sylvia. I guess I owe it to the company to go back out on this one because I wasn't aware that 2 witnesses needed to be present for the signing of the deed. Thanks again for your knowledge.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 6/22/05 10:16pm
Msg #46989

Re: There is no new law!!!!

The company should have told you that you needed two witnesses on the deed. So they should take responsibility too.

Reply by Dee-FL on 6/23/05 7:50am
Msg #47058

Re: There is no new law!!!!

You know, Sylvia. I thought the company should have told me OR the borrowers that they needed witnesses, also. So, should I charge them another trip fee or just swallow this one?

Reply by Dee-FL on 6/23/05 7:52am
Msg #47059

Re: There is no new law!!!!

AND, these borrowers weren't typical. The wife didn't even want the ex in the house. So, why would she want witnesses involved in this transaction. She was very particular and so was he. I just don't know what their reaction will be, now.

Reply by Nancy in Florida on 6/22/05 10:22pm
Msg #46991

Re: Slyvia why are the SS's asking for 2 witnesses on th

Mortgage? It seems like every signing I get states in the notary instructions to be sure and get 2 witness on the Mortgage. This has proven to be impossible at times. Many times borrowers are the only adults in the house at the time and many live in remote areas and do not have a neighbor to ask and many do not want to ask a neighbor. If this is not a new law, why are they requiring it and how can I prove to them it is not required per Florida Law? One SS lists all of the Notary/SA Instructions and states at the bottom that the fee will be cut if any of these instructions are not followed? Getting 2 witnesses is one of the instructions.

Thanks...

Reply by PAW_Fl on 6/22/05 10:29pm
Msg #46993

Re: Slyvia why are the SS's asking for 2 witnesses on th

See my response above.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 6/22/05 10:30pm
Msg #46994

Re: Sylvia why are the SS's asking for 2 witnesses on th

They are asking because they do not know Florida law.

See PAW's message - he has included the relevant statute.

Reply by Victoria/FL on 6/22/05 10:57pm
Msg #47003

Re: Slyvia why are the SS's asking for 2 witnesses on th

Even many Florida signing agencies don't know Florida law. VERY frustrating! I think I'll start memorizing it and repeat verbatim

PS PAW if you're reading - thanks for the info on the ieSpell (many moons ago). I love it (altough I sometimes forget to use it). I'm a fast typer who makes many mistakes, so the ieSpell is a lifesaver.

Reply by Dee-FL on 6/23/05 7:57am
Msg #47060

Re: Slyvia why are the SS's asking for 2 witnesses on th

Victoria, Do you take a signing agent class ever so often to keep up on FLA laws/requirements for Signing Agents? Just wondering where the class(es) are offered?