Posted by Rob_NoCal on 6/23/05 5:07pm
Msg #47227

Signature- Abuse me if you want

Be mean if you want but......
I still cant find a for sure answer. Did a loan closing...and I'm sure I did it wrong. Wife was from Romania and signs her name Lastname First initial (it would look like: Smith J) Says she has always signed her name that way. Of course loan docs have FirstName LastName.
Now if she signs like the docs, her signature doesnt match her ID, and if she signs like the ID, it doesnt match the docs. The name on the docs is exactly like the ID. How do I notorize a signature that might not match, or is that not the important issue.....yes I am new and ignorant....at least I admit it.

Reply by Stephanie_CA on 6/23/05 5:41pm
Msg #47230

Re: Signature- Abuse me if you want...Rob

Hi Rob,

I always have the borrower sign their name the way it is typed below the signature line.


The name on her ID must be more than...for example:

The name on the loan docs are Michele Wilson
The name on her ID is Michele Britanny Wilson.
This is ok because the ID has more than on the loan docs.

Your example is interesting...she signs last name, first name initial only. You say the name on the docs is exactly like the ID. Second sentence, second paragraph....it is very important how you notarize.....she should sign the docs as it appears below signature line and you should notarize the same way.

Reply by Rob_NoCal on 6/23/05 6:01pm
Msg #47236

Re: Signature- Abuse me if you want...Rob

Stephanie;
Thanks, the issue I run into now is that the signature she is now signing with does not match the signature on her ID....looking at my California notary Public Practices and Procedures book p. 9 "Compare the signature on the document with the signature on an ID card and in the Notary Journay to ensure that the signatures appear reasonably similar".....are these then the only ones that need to match???

Reply by Anne Arnold on 6/23/05 5:59pm
Msg #47235

I had a similar issue with a borrower who only uses his initials to sign EVERYTHING. So even though the loan docs had his first name, middle initial, last name, he insisted on signing everything with first initial, middle initial, last name intial. Said he's never signed his whole name before on anything in his adult life. So on the signature affidavit, I made sure he signed that way as well.

I figured if that's his signature, then that's his signature. Far be it from me to tell him HOW to sign his own name.

Everything went fine and the loan went through.

Reply by Rob_NoCal on 6/23/05 6:04pm
Msg #47237

Thanks Anne;
I guess I find out tommorrow when the title company ges the docs....already have discussed it with them and they are to call me in the morning.....probably be another trip to their borrowers home for me though

Reply by Teasa Mahar on 6/23/05 6:39pm
Msg #47249

I'm Not from CA but and not a stupid question

I think you are ok. You verified that she is who she states to be. And she really did sign as on docs but just backwards. I think this is more a cultural issue than anything. I have had Indian customers sign very strange but a signature is a signature. You could also have added her the backwards way on the name affidavit and have her sign a/k/a as this. Not a stupid question, just goes to show the stuff that can come up. And who says we are paper pushers. Again, I think you are ok and willl go through.

Reply by PA Notary II on 6/23/05 7:36pm
Msg #47257

Re: I'm Not from CA but and not a stupid question

Rob: sure is a valid question for this board....I have had similar situations albeit never a last, first conundrum....I have tried at these times, to advise the bwr that, if they wish their loan to fund without problems, to sign as indicated, or risk a re-sign (with possible doc re-draw charge and/or loss of interest lock in) at a later date. Usually they will comply.

Reply by Joel CT on 6/23/05 8:06pm
Msg #47262

Signature issue

My sister in law is from Romania, and Robs situation presents a common cultural difference in that nation, the practice of signing ones name as Family Name first followed by an abbreviated version of the Given Name. Even now with her new American Family Name, she uses the same format.

I may be wrong, but referring back to a Business Law 101 course text authored by our current Attorney General Mr. Ashcroft, the "Signature" is the mark made by an individual to signify his identity or representation. The English language is standard in this nation, and generally the "signature" or "autograph" is made in script or cursive writing, however I do not believe that this is mandated by law.

This reference is made primarily to the indorsement of negotiable insturments, namely checks, whereby a mark or stamp can be considered valid for indorsement. Of course when it comes to a notorial act, we must witness or allow the signer to attest to the validity of his or her "signature" (as opposed to a stamp or seal) so the definition of a signature would be narrower. I too had a signing wherein the husband made his initials in a rather artistic two-letter encircled design. I pointed out the lack of a second initial, but he insisted that the two-letter moniker was his "mark", and every thing cleared with no problem.


Any thoughts?

Reply by BrendaTx on 6/23/05 8:32pm
Msg #47267

Re: Signature issue

I have seen "marks" as well from those not native to America.

In one case it was an Option One/TCT loan...no problem. I think the BEST case is to get people to sign as we have been taught to have them sign. However, sometimes that's not going to happen...In my limited experience with this NSA job, I have never heard that anyone's loan did not fund as a result...anyone else?

Reply by Becca_FL on 6/23/05 11:12pm
Msg #47328

Re: Signature issue

It depends on the lender. When I worked for a TC, we "sat on" many signed, recorded and closed loans awaiting funding for disbursement because of an "under-signed" signature. We had one really sloppy EO that I cleaned up after. Now, I thank her. She taught me everything about what not to do.

Reply by BrendaTx on 6/23/05 8:29pm
Msg #47265

Re: I'm Not from CA but and not a stupid question

Retired doctor wants to sign with MD behind his name yesterday--thank goodness for copies of docs at signings. That was a tough one. That's the short version. The long version is:

Last evening - Bwr is a old guy, retired MD around the age of 78 who cannot hear thunder. His wife is of similar age and what most men I know would say was "nutty as a fruitcake" if it was their mother in law...not crazy, just nutty. I walk into the house and Doc YELLS "Hello beautiful!" hugs me and tries to cop a slight feel. But, as it turns out, he was Brazilian and I have known a fellow or two from Brazil...Dr. Bwr was just being polite, I think.

It was a regular Chase loan on a modest home...good interest rate, low closing costs, etc.

Wifey told me that she was worried about *the bankruptcy* and that her husband had been on the bankruptcy but it was not his fault. It was all her fault.

"What bankruptcy?" I asked her just making conversation. She tells me that 20 or so years ago she decided she wanted to go into business for herself and she tried all kinds of things (scams) and failed. I am wondering...how does an ENT specialist's wife cause a bankruptcy like that?

Anyhow, Doc can't hear a word so he's signing away and requires no explanation on any document because he just wants to get back to whatever it was he was doing before I got there. I get up and walk around the table to check his signature and he's putting MD after everything. We start over with the copies and I convince him (yelling) that he may not get the loan funded if he continues to do this. She's yelling at him the same thing...the dog went and hid in the other room. Yeah, I was yelling the whole time I was there. It was very tiring, but....

I love this job because there's a story in every home I visit...he was a Brazilian student in Maryland...she was in college...they fell in love with him during the war. In 1944 she said Brazilians were made to leave the country (according to her, not up on my history for this part) and she went with him. I asked her if they had a fun life...she said, "Oh we had lots of fun...did a lot of stupid things...took so many crazy risks, but oh we had a wonderful life and I spent over 20 years in Brazil during our marriage."

I'll bet she was fun...at her age and sitting in that messy little crackerbox house with all kinds of bizarre clutter, a nice little dog and a deaf MD, she was as pretty as a picture for her age. Even at her age, her beauty was striking. In fact, I was so surprised when she opened the door that I said, "wow, don't you look nice today!"

She had a twinkle in her eye. Now, she was a little bit "out there" on some of her comments, but I'll betcha if I had not had to kind of rush on out of there she could have told me some very interesting stories about fun times in Brazil.

Reply by Anonymous on 6/23/05 10:57pm
Msg #47316

Re: I'm Not from CA but and not a stupid question

in the seminar, the instructor, indicated to have the signer, sign the documents as the name appears, but underneath or beside it write "aka" ________

Reply by Pete_NY on 6/24/05 10:43am
Msg #47440

Re: I'm Not from CA but and not a stupid question

That's what I do also. Add that signature to the name affidavit.