Posted by AngelinaAZ on 6/15/05 3:54pm
Msg #44905

Small Town... Big Poacher Problem

OK here is a question for the oldies.

I'm going to try really hard to keep this short.

I purchased my house through a Realty Company that recently moved next door to a Title Company that I have a really good deal set up with. My old realtor saw me going in and out and came rushing over to know what I was doing. She charged into the middle of a signing, then waited right outside the conference room until I was done and started asking me questions. I was totally on the spot in front of my colleages and I had to be honest. I told her in brief (and understated) what I was doing there and she said, "Oh gosh is that a lot of money?" Before I could say anything the receptionist popped off with, "Well she's making more today than I will make in two weeks!"

Now I found out that she is getting certified and I heard from a reliable source that she called the bigwigs and submitted a proposal...and I heard that the receptionist gave her inside info on my fees.

I am not afraid of a little competition but this just seems so underhanded it is just pissing me off!!!!

I went to the bigwig and took her to lunch... I confronted the issue head-on in a professional way. I told her how much I enjoyed working with them and reminded her of my flawless record, my ability to put borrowers at ease and other good stuff. I reminded her of the work that goes into **establishing accounts with the lenders** (thanx Brenda for that info) and that my business is very much the same way...etc. etc. She was very amenable and I believe that my deal is safe but I can't help but wonder about when the Realtor's paperwork comes in. She has more experience 'in the industry' than me... and she is right next door. I'm about to take the little b**** out back and smack her around... her and the receptionist.

Any great ideas that don't include violence?

I am so annoyed! I really spent a lot of time building good relationships with all of them including the receptionist... she is supposed to be my ally.

Reply by Teasa/NY on 6/15/05 4:05pm
Msg #44911

You sound like a sharp lady and I think you will be fine. I think you did the right thing with the owner. I have learned the hard way to THINK ON MY FEET, especially when confronted by pushy jerks. She had no right to ask that question and next time out-fox anyone by counting to five before you answer a question, of course in the nicest way possibe.

Reply by AngelinaAZ on 6/15/05 4:10pm
Msg #44914

It is hard to out-fox anyone with the big mouth receptionist popping off. If I count to five she might give away my social, DL#, bank account numbers, first born child...etc.

Reply by stamper_WI on 6/15/05 4:15pm
Msg #44915

Because of the confidential nature of a Title Work biz., If I was the owner of that Biz I would be very concerned about a receptionist blabbing everybody's biz around

Reply by Lee/AR on 6/15/05 4:26pm
Msg #44917

all-purpose reply to nosey questions: Why would you ask me that?!? With 'tude & tone--

Reply by Liz on 6/15/05 4:31pm
Msg #44919

I dont think any brokers would want a real estate person involved with their real estate transactions. We have clients that require NO REAL ESTATE BROKERS and NO TITLE COMPANY EMPLOYEES as notaries for their closings. Just a thought

Reply by AngelinaAZ on 6/15/05 4:40pm
Msg #44921

I am happy to hear that. I HOPE YOU ARE RIGHT. The bigwig did not say anything about that to me. Maybe she has no intention of enlisting her services and is just keeping her options open to re-negotiate our deal and get the fee down a little. They came up with the fee not me and the deal came when I was still very new so I JUMPED for it and hung on for dear life. I hope that I am worried for nothing.

It still doesn't change the fact that I think this Realtor is SCUM! I gave her six refererrals that ended up in home sales for her since I bought my house.

Reply by Joan-OH on 6/15/05 4:44pm
Msg #44924

I think you did good with the big wig. But, you used this realtor when you bought your home. She can at least show you some respect in your business. Quite frankly, I would walk into her real estate office, see her behind closed doors, look her right in the eye and remind her that you gave her business when you bought your home and ask her point blank why she is trying to go after your client, possibly putting you out of business.

If she does anything but stutter through a response to that point blank question, then she has no conscience (sp?) and even if she did get your account, her true colors will eventually show through.

Incidentally, I've yet to do a closing with a real estate agent in the room who knew a lick about the closing paperwork. She has plenty of catch up to do.

Regarding the receptionist - better be nice. They know all and you can't get to anyone else except through her. She can stop your business cold especially since she seems to have a big mouth.

My final question is, did the RE agent or receptionist, or even the big wig have anything gross hanging anywhere near her face? :-)

Joan-OH

Reply by AngelinaAZ on 6/15/05 5:08pm
Msg #44927

No but the receptionist looks like Shrek... just not green.

I think it's a great idea to confront the Poacher... I just hope that the aftermath is not this scenario from high school.... She saunters into the TC office, "Oh my God... can you believe she came into my office and tried to tell me that I am trying to STEAL her business. I can't believe she thinks there is not enough business to go around. I mean I am only approaching you guys about this because I am right next door and I think you should have a backup in case of an emergency... I just can't believe that she is so paranoid." I can just hear it now, this is the kind of chit I am talking about.

IMHO... They work next door to each other and in the world of preserving relationships and maintaining peace in a small town, she is going to rank higher. Her mother also owns the RE agency and is the 'town matriarch' per say.

I'm telling you, I am clinging to the chance that Liz is right because otherwise I bet I am SOL, I am attempting to 'think a happy thought' but I'm not flying yet.

Reply by stamper_WI on 6/15/05 5:24pm
Msg #44931

In all fairness to Real Estate agents ( because I was one for 9 years and do free lance for several active ones now), any agent with a few closings under their belt are familiar with the closing statements, Deeds and Transfer fee forms. They have no knowledge of the details of the loan for the most part and it is between the LO and the buyer. LO and Title companies usually wait for the Listing agent to gather the payoffs and any thing else owed by buyer and seller so that there is a clean closing and no liens on the property. My experience as an agent at a closing was that the loan paper work was done privately because, quite frankly it's no one elses business what the buyers financial agreement with the bank is until its a matter of public record at the courthouse. Here, many LO have the buyers come in early just for this purpose. Most realtors wait in eager anticipation for a loan commitment letter from the buyers lender. Thats all they need to know!.

The Realtor needs to know that she over stepped her boundaries coming into an obvious
" business" meeting and getting into to your business in a very public way. I imagine it was very distracting to the clients as well. The most effective leverage you have, outside of her lack of class, is to point out that you have supplied several successful referals to her..ask her how much she made on those! It would seem you are darn near supporting her as it is!

The Receptionist really stews me. What you make is none of her business and how does she know that in the first place?

Reply by Liz on 6/15/05 5:48pm
Msg #44936

Angelina,

No one wants to do business with someone who steals clients. Hopefully your client will realize that. She is putting herself at risk then. Just be the class act.... I am thinking positive for you!

Reply by kguthrie on 6/15/05 6:16pm
Msg #44939

Don't let this incident get you down. You're much more professional than she is! Why not try another marketing technique that works for me. Try leaving your rate sheet and a small stack of business cards with the local Mortgage Brokers or local banks?

Reply by BrendaTX on 6/15/05 8:12pm
Msg #44967

Poachers in Texas, too...Bring it...

Embrace the challenge of the poachers, Angelina.

It's been a wonderful charge of energy for me.

I did a little courthouse investigating today...I know who they are and I know where their business is coming from. And, I know where the signing services (who pretended I was "first call" so I'd cut them breaks) get their business. I have never solicited their clients...but they were not honest with me. They did not have to chat me up like that...oh well.

Gloves are off.

Soon...I will start filing my fangs and sharpening my claws.

Cheap poachers and silver tongue SSs...you drew first blood.

Reply by AngelinaAZ on 6/16/05 12:37am
Msg #45034

Re: Poachers in Texas, too...Bring it...

Brenda... I'd love to hear what's going on with you. Have you posted about it? To take some newbie advice... I'm going to use the orange search button right now.

Reply by BrendaTX on 6/16/05 6:30am
Msg #45066

Re: Poachers in Texas, too...Bring it...Angelina

You are new?

I missed that. Kudos to your know-how and savvy.

Clearly you have a good head on your shoulders and that wonderful personality and attitude will be your ticket.

Email me off forum. My plans are already in motion...but my situation is different and probably won't work for yours. You'll get creative and figure it out!

I am not very competitive...or I was not before--this job has really made me into a different person. Someone I like a lot. Embrace the challenge and figure out a way around that mountain!

Reply by AngelinaAZ on 6/16/05 11:55am
Msg #45168

Re: Poachers in Texas, too...Bring it...Angelina

I was being a stinker about the fact that I asked a question before looking up the answer myself.

I'm not technically a 'newbie' in loan numbers... I've closed over 200 loans... but time wise I'm still a whipper snapper. I am far from a 'seasoned oldie' by any means. A lot of my biz. comes from a select group of clients that have fairly simple packages. I don't have the broad spectrum knowledge that I want or need in regards to Reverse Mortagages, Bridge Loans, Corporate Stuff... etc. I'm looking to expand my horizons and become a knowledge machine. Some of the situations you guys talk about make me run for the manual!

Reply by Becca/FL on 6/15/05 7:44pm
Msg #44961

Does her broker next door know her intentions? It may not look too kosher to have a Realtor from next door closing loans as an independent in a Title Co. Her broker may not like what it may imply. Possible RESPA questions from other Realtors, agencies and even other Title Cos.

She's not nearly as smart as you are!

Reply by Julie-MI on 6/15/05 9:04pm
Msg #44982

eweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee sounds like a cat fight!

#1 True Title company employees are not paid as much as contract closers. They ARE jealous. Especially this receptionist.

#2 Just because one is a real estate agent, does not mean they know how to close a loan. But she sounds like an aggressive little bugger and if she really undercuts your fee, the fact that she has no class may not matter to the owners of the title company. Their profits may dictate.

#3 You SHOULD BE AFRAID of competition, no matter how little. I have been so undercutted in the last 2 years it's not even funny. Gas prices are higher, closing fees are higher, but I still won't reduce my fees.

#4 The lunch was a professional thing to do, keep the record flawless, buy yourself a few new suits and keep up the good work. Also, treat yourselft to a weekly manicure, I think nicely groomed nails gives a nice impression as well as unscuffed shoes. Smile at said receptionist no matter how much you want to slap her------------------come to the board to vent and keep us posted.

It is a drag that she is conveniently right next door. I guess I am suprised that the title company doesn't have a salaried closer and that when you purchased your home, the real estate lady would have already known that you were a loan closer or whatever you call yourself (unless this venture started after you purchased your home).

You can never think you are ahead in this industry, your bread and butter company may just go poof. Just when things are going great, a situation like you encountered comes up.

Reply by AngelinaAZ on 6/16/05 12:33am
Msg #45033

Re: eweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee sounds like a cat fight!

Catfight? I was thinking more of a dogfight. I'm Maverick, you're Iceman and you are going down sucker.

Thank you all for your input and thank you for letting me vent. I really do want to smack her around and it wouldn't be pretty. I'm thinkin' more like a Tyson vs. Holyfield 'say goodbye to your ear' kind of fight.

FYI... I bought my house 2 1/2 years ago before I became an SA and as I said before, I have given her lots of business. Their office just moved next to the TC 3 weeks ago. The TC does have an in house closer but she is OLD and works part time... and doesn't like the EOM crunch. They don't let her go because she is part owner. OMG, I can't believe I didn't think of it until right now. I am such a super idiot! SHE LOVES ME! I used to bake her these little cookie things all the time, I listened to all of her griping about her aches and pains and took her and her cronies to the casino. I just never see her in the office anymore so I didn't even think of it... I think it's time for another lunch!!! Happy thoughts...

I will keep you posted as to what happens. If you see me on the news, it might not have gone so well. Wow, I am REALLY taking this personal!

BTW if anybody sees a post that says, "Hi, I'm an Arizona Real Estate Agent and I just became an SA. I work next door to a TC and I really want their business so if anybody knows of some great advice on how to deal with Title Companies let me know...." CRUCIFY HER...LET HER HAVE IT... UNLEASH THE BEAST!!!! PAW can give her a legal mindtwister and Cali and Hugh can make her cry!

Reply by Ernest_CT on 6/16/05 12:53am
Msg #45036

Woof! Woof!

Angelina, you win the "Who can make me smile the most?" award of the month, and you're in the top five for 2005.

What goes around, comes around. Personally, I'm betting on you in this ... umm ... adventure. Keep being nice to the people at the title company and you'll eat the RE agent's lunch, and then you'll have the receptionist's attention. I strongly agree with the people who warn not to make the receptionist [more] unhappy! You need her more than she needs you.

The receptionist / telephone operator should be one of the hughest-paid employees in any company; they have much more real impact on the business's day to day interaction with the public than the CEO.

Reply by AngelinaAZ on 6/16/05 1:09am
Msg #45040

Re: Woof! Woof!

I completely agree about the receptionist and I'm going to do something about it tomorrow. I'll let you know how it goes.

Reply by BrendaTX on 6/16/05 6:40am
Msg #45071

Wrong gig, Angelina...

I love, love, love your posts. I think you need to start writing. How about a competitive series to John Grisham's books?

Your first could be called: The Borrower.

Tell us the REAL notary insider stories.

Reply by Barry on 6/16/05 2:17am
Msg #45049

Let this be a lesson to you. You owe no explanation to anyone, and what you do for a living is none of anyone's business unless you want it to be made so. I believe her behavior, to say the least, is unprofessional and to say the most, intolerable. As for the receptionist, I would report her to the "big wig." She overstepped her bound when she discusses your fee with anyone. Why does the receptionist have access to your fee? Why do you consider her an ally? To me, the comment alone makes her sound like a devious person.

You want to even the score? Report her unprofessional manner to the local Board of Realtors; then you might consider filing a complaint about her behavior with the state department that issued her a license. Send all letters certified mail. She might think twice before trying this again. Go to the realtor and ask her what you need to do to get a Real Estate license; then go to her broker, and submit a proposal on what fees for which you would work.

As for her knowledge in this business, I offer her the Bronx Cheer! According to most notarial laws, documents are not allowed to be explained by the notary, although the law in your state regarding this may be different than the law in my state; thus her "knowledge" might get her into more trouble than she expects. The fact that she did not know the SA business existed all this time tells me that she is limited in her scope of knowledge, or she would have been doing business with the TC long before the TC heard of you.

I own a SS. People who see only the $$$$$ to work are not the type of people I utilize in this business. The notary who takes meticulous care of my clients, the documents, the borrowers, establishes the rapport, asks the right question when not certain of what to do, etc., is the only type of notary I utilize. I pay a superior fee, above the normal rates, so I expect superior work. Those who take care of business first never need worry about the money. It will come to them.

Reply by BrendaTX on 6/16/05 6:20am
Msg #45064

Barry...

***I own a SS. People who see only the $$$$$ to work are not the type of people I utilize in this business.***

I agree 100%.

If you get work in Texas, please see my profile--I have a great network of associates in Texas that will take care of the job right for you.

Reply by Barry on 6/16/05 7:20am
Msg #45076

Re: Barry...

Gladly. Send me a little more info, zip code, etc., so I know where to look.

Reply by BrendaTX on 6/16/05 8:07am
Msg #45086

Barry - click on my profile. My network's link is there.

My associates all have 100+ signings (individually) - we collectively cover about 1/2 of Texas counties. We now go all the way up into the Texas Panhandle, but I have been so busy I have not updated that info on our site.

Thanks!

Reply by Dorothy/MI on 6/16/05 9:35pm
Msg #45369

Barry, if you do business in MI, we also have a network of professional, experienced notaries and cover the most populated area. You may email me for details dmatsel at earthlink.net

Reply by Anonymous on 6/16/05 11:22pm
Msg #45407

Commiting the cardinal sin and posting as anon - there's a reason.

I've read this whole post, and what you've you done so far to protect your territory from this beast is perfect. I see one lil teeny tiny problem tho with with this obnoxious woman further invading your territory....There's these creatures called 'title reps'. They will sell their souls to get business from realtors. Should your poacher enlist the help of her personal rep (aka lady of the night) - to coerce the TC to give the beast your notary business, it may another hurdle. I'm quite sure this little poacher knows the power she has over her own personal (lady of the night) and I don't doubt for one second she'll use it.

Stick to your professionalism (or get down, whatever works best). Even if you lost business temporarily, it won't be long before EO's get sick of being told what to do by the (lady of the night) and know they need the quality of your work.

Also, set an appointment with the County manager of the branch regarding this receptionist. She should be fired for her behaviour, and the manager needs to know about it. For all you know, they may have had other complaints about her, and yours may just push them over the edge to replace her.

Keep fighting - you'll win.