Posted by Nancy in Florida on 6/2/05 11:33pm
Msg #42019

Unbelievable fraud from an Attorney no less!

An Attorney from NY called last week for a signing in Florida but the property is in NY. The closing was scheduled for 6/1 but postponed until tonight. The docs were overnighted to me and I received them today. The Attorney told me the docs were dated for June 1 and to just have the borrower sign the docs. Okay I have done loans where the docs were not date sensative. When I was going over the docs with the borrower the RTC was dated incorrectly (as if she was signing on June 1) but my instructions from the Attorney was to not change any dates at all. (he emailed that to me) The docs had most of the signature line dates filled in with June 1 as the date she signed. I know when docs are not date sensative the borrower can sign after the date on the docs but not prior to but I always thought the date on the signature line should be the actual date of the signing. The notary acknowledgement was also pre-dated with June 1. I will change the date and indicate I notarized the docs today.

I tried to call the attorney but it was after hours. To some of you more experienced SA's how would you handled this? I know I do not have to notarize the RTC but that was pre-dated on the signature with June 1 as well. The borrower is blatantly not being given the 3 full business days required under the RTC. This to me is clearly fraud and from an Attorney no less.... I am sure since I will not back date the acknowledgement I will probably not see a dime from this Attorney and after I spent 2 1/2 hours with this borrower because she was very chatty and kept speaking of her dead husband. That was another thing some of the docs had his name on them and again I could reach no one. Luckily she had an extra copy of his death certificate and I just included that in the package. I know if it were a Florida property it would have to have been adjorned but for a NY property I think this should be okay.

Reply by CaliNotary on 6/3/05 12:17am
Msg #42022

So did you change the date on the RTC? The wishes of the attorney do not supercede the law, and if you let her sign as if it were signed on June 1, you're partially guilty of violating her rights as well. It's our job as signing agents to ensure that things are done legally.

The only dates I would have been concerned about were the notarization dates and the RTC dates and I would have made damn sure they were correct. The attorney is probably going to be pissed at you because you didn't backdate your notarizations, the least you could have done was make sure that the borrower got the 3 days that they're legally entitled to.

That he told you everything was dated June 1 should have been a major tipoff to you that he expected you to backdate. You really should have clarified things before going on the signing and turned down the assignment.

And if he refuses to pay you, it wouldn't be the worst idea in the world to threaten to turn him into the appropriate authorities.

Reply by TN Notary on 6/3/05 5:06am
Msg #42037

I just did one yesterday, dated for June 1, I was instructed to leave date as is have them sign and date with correct date and to only change RTC to today's date and change recission date.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 6/3/05 1:06am
Msg #42030

Nancy

Please don't tell me this was Sirianni????

I would have had the borrower date her signature on the RTC.
You did right correcting the date on your notary certificates.

Reply by Nd_WA on 6/3/05 2:43am
Msg #42035

Both RCT and DOT dates must match for it to be legal. The loan will not go though if RTC is dated 6/1 and you witnessed borrower signed DOT 6/2. Someone would be in deep water to let this loan slip.

Reply by LauriecPA on 6/3/05 7:32am
Msg #42046

I had an attorney's office call me recently and ask me to go to DE to notarize some docs. I politely told them that I have to be in PA in order to notarize anything. She told me that it was "okay to notarize something in DE if it was for a PA entity". I said "According to my notary law primer, I MUST be in PA to notarize any docs, no matter where they originate from." I'm sure if I went to DE and notarized those docs, I wouldn't be able to find them to back me up when I had to explain why it was okay for me to "notarize for A PA entity"!

Reply by Stephen_VA on 6/3/05 8:02am
Msg #42053

That is interesting. A Virginia notary can notarize documents anywhere, if the intent is to file/record the document in Virginia.

Reply by PAW_Fl on 6/3/05 8:37am
Msg #42057

The following is NOT legal advice or interpretation.

The way I read VA's notary law, is that only "notarial acts are performed in connection with a deed or other writing to be admitted to record in the Commonwealth of Virginia." In the strictest sense of the wording, all the notarized documents in the package, except the deed, could not be notarized by a VA notary outside the Commonwealth, since those documents are not recorded in the Commonwealth.

I'm not sure how states other than VA would accept a notary performing notarial functions within their state borders unless duly commissioned within that state.

Reply by Nancy in florida on 6/3/05 8:43am
Msg #42058

She did sign the RTC and dated it the date she signed it.