Posted by Polly_CA on 6/2/05 5:37pm
Msg #41929

borrower did not date

I cant believe I missed this! The borrower didnt date several documents in his loan package, everything is signed where it needs to be, initialed where it needs to be but he didnt date some of these pages. This is obviously my fault, and so my question is ; can I or the LO date these for him? Is that not okay? Maybe this is an obvious answer but humor me.

Reply by SamIam_CA on 6/2/05 6:22pm
Msg #41934

Re: borrower did not date - Brenda, Sylvia, Paw, Hugh,Cali?

As a novice - the answer is not obvious to me. I'm interested to see how others reply.

Reply by ColleenCA on 6/2/05 6:25pm
Msg #41936

Re: borrower did not date - Brenda, Sylvia, Paw, Hugh,Cali?

If I were in your position, I would contact the borrower asap and ask to come back and have him date the docs before you ship them off.

Reply by DellaCa on 6/2/05 6:40pm
Msg #41943

Re: borrower did not date - Brenda, Sylvia, Paw, Hugh,Cali?

I do believe the dates need to be in the borrowers hand writing also,I would call them to see if I may stop back by. Just mho

Reply by TN Notary on 6/2/05 7:14pm
Msg #41954

Re: borrower did not date - Brenda, Sylvia, Paw, Hugh,Cali?

That is my opinion. Each borrower must date in their own handwriting. Although the LO may do it but I wouldn't touch it.

Reply by HisHughness on 6/2/05 7:38pm
Msg #41962

Re: borrower did not date - Brenda, Sylvia, Paw, Hugh,Cali?

I know of nothing in the law that requires dates be in the signatory's hand. There is an obvious reason that the signature must be by the person executing the document: That is the manner which the law has established to validate his concurrence in the transaction. But I know of no equivalent vis a vis dates. There are two caveats to this:

1. Some lenders/TCs/SSs require the borrower to date the documents. That does not have the force of law, just the force of your paycheck.

2. There may be something in either federal requirements or real estate law in any given state that requires borrower dating. My guess is not, but it is a possibility.

Reply by CaliNotary on 6/2/05 8:06pm
Msg #41972

Re: borrower did not date - Brenda, Sylvia, Paw, Hugh,Cali?

Unless there was something specific in the instructions about the borrower dating the docs themselves, I would just fill in the dates myself before sending the docs back. I've had plenty of signings where one spouse fills in the date on both signature lines and it's never been an issue. I've also had the occasional document where the lender has already handwritten in the date, usually on preliminary docs that they want dated a different date.

It's really not that hard to make the handwriting look similar to the way the borrower dates the docs, and I don't see anything unethical about you doing it. It just seems like it would be a waste of everybody's time to travel back to the borrower to do it.

Reply by BrendaTX on 6/2/05 9:04pm
Msg #41985

Re: borrower did not date - Brenda, Sylvia, Paw, Hugh,Cali?

I'd fill it in unless there were instructions to the contrary.

Reply by Sheree_TX on 6/2/05 9:22pm
Msg #41991

Re: borrower did not date - Brenda, Sylvia, Paw, Hugh,Cali?

I've done the same without consequence.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 6/3/05 1:10am
Msg #42031

Re: borrower did not date - Brenda, Sylvia, Paw, Hugh,Cali?

Cover your butt, and go get the borrowers to date the docs they missed dating.

Reply by Tonja_VA on 6/2/05 7:58pm
Msg #41970

It is my understanding, in all documentation that I have encountered, that the borrower must sign and date for themselves. It has even been stated to me at times that the spouse is not able to date for the other spouse. Reasoning behind this?, I'm not quite sure. It's just my experience.

Reply by Calnotary on 6/2/05 9:02pm
Msg #41984

Some times I date ALL the docs, just before the borrower signs. I date them at the borrowers presence, the reason I do this, is to be sure that they sign the right date. Am I doing wrong here?

Reply by JanetK/CA on 6/2/05 9:28pm
Msg #41997

I've seen some lenders recently add to their instructions (getting longer all the time...) that each borrower should add their own dates. Every lender is different and, as I think CaliNotary said, some even pre-date some of the preliminary docs. Conversely, I've seen some instructions that request the SA to fill in some dates (e.g. on the RTC). To be on the safe side, though, I have the borrower fill in any needed dates and limit my marks to the notary certificate and to documents that specify I am to complete them (e.g. ID certification).

Reply by Polly_CA on 6/2/05 9:29pm
Msg #41999

Also...

If I had sent these back without the dates on them, isnt this where the limited P.O.A. comes in? After all isnt this exactly the situation where its put to use? I mean of course I shouldnt have missed these but that what the p.o.a.'s for right?

Reply by HisHughness on 6/2/05 10:22pm
Msg #42008

Re: Also...

Polly says, as veteran NSAs shiver:

***If I had sent these back without the dates on them, isnt this where the limited P.O.A. comes in? After all isnt this exactly the situation where its put to use? ***

No, Polly, this is not "exactly the situation" where it is put to use. This is exactly the situation where it should NOT be put to use. The POA is for the correction of clerical errors, not entries that will materially affect the rights or responsibilities of the parties. That is what a date can do: witness the date on the RTC, for example.

Absent a requirement by the lender/TC/SS, just slap the missing date on and ship the dox back. then you can certainly date one when you watched the signature. It will never be challenged.

Reply by CarolynCO on 6/2/05 10:30pm
Msg #42009

Re: Also...

*The POA is for the correction of clerical errors*

IMO, a borrower missing a date while signing loan docs is not a clerical error.

Reply by Polly_Ca on 6/2/05 10:34pm
Msg #42010

Re: Also...

But isnt the poa for signatures as well? Im just not clear on that.

Reply by Polly_Ca on 6/2/05 10:38pm
Msg #42011

never mind that last message...I get it...n/m

Reply by HisHughness on 6/3/05 1:40am
Msg #42033

Re: Also...

A portion of my comments regarding missing dates somehow was left out of an earlier post. The post with the missing material reads:

Absent a requirement by the lender/TC/SS, just slap the missing date on and ship the dox back. If the title company/lender can insert dates beforehand, then you can certainly date one when you watched the signature. It will never be challenged.

Reply by Jon on 6/2/05 9:26pm
Msg #41993

I also do not see a problem with filling in the dates. What I would do is call the borrower and let them know that they missed a couple of dates, and ask when would be a good time for me to come out. Usually they will say just fill them in. I leave it up to the borrower. I have never had a problem with this.

Reply by Nd_WA on 6/2/05 9:36pm
Msg #42001

If you sat there and witness the borrowers sign every single page, I don't see anything wrong with you filling in the date. I've had borrowers tell me to put their initials on docs when I missed them, but then this is a whole different issue.

Reply by Polly_Ca on 6/2/05 10:49pm
Msg #42014

The docs were signed at the escrow office so I had to go pick them up and get the borrower to date them and then return them by tommorrow afternoon. I talked to the borrower( a very nice man, who apologized to me for not dating those pages, as if it were his fault)he asked if I could just do it for him. I would be happy to do so and asked the LO if it was okay, but shes not sure. The instructions dont specify. The borrower doesnt mind having to meet with me again but if we could save some time that would be great. What would any of you do?

Reply by Nancy in Florida on 6/2/05 11:08pm
Msg #42016

I have had many docs come from the Lender/TC with dates already typed in the date line. So I never thought it would be a legal requirement that the date must be in the borrower's own handwriting. I have also added dates if they were missed and I have never had an issue. I watched them sign the docs and I know the date in which they were signed.

Also from a Lender stand point, in my previous life I worked for many Lenders and managed many Closing departments and in my experience it is not legally required that they borrower's date the docs but every Lender and TC are different. Find out from the Lender or the TC how they want it handled.

Reply by CaliNotary on 6/3/05 12:26am
Msg #42023

"What would any of you do?"

Why are you asking this again? You have a whole thread of responses telling you what we would do.

Reply by Kim_NJ on 6/3/05 6:17am
Msg #42039

I usually just fill in the date if I happen to miss one while at the table. Never had a problem with it.

Reply by Bob-Chicago on 6/3/05 8:57am
Msg #42062

WHICH DOCS WERE NOT DATED?

Hugh is correct, as usual, and I would have no prolem inserting a date on a W-9, 4506 etc, absent specific instructions to the contrary, but I would be concerned as to doing so with the "receipt" docs, the TIL and RTC.
The last date to cancel is computed as 3 business days from the date that the bwr received the TIL and two copies of the RTC. The bwrs sig and date on those docs acts as a "receipt"
for purposes of commencing the RTC period

Reply by Polly_Ca on 6/3/05 10:13am
Msg #42073

CALI

Yeah I didnt really need to add that extra *what would you do *but theres no need to be snippy.Thanks for all the feedback everyone.

Reply by HisHughness on 6/3/05 12:47pm
Msg #42098

Re: CALI

Polly complains:

***Yeah I didnt really need to add that extra *what would you do *but theres no need to be snippy.***

You are incorrect. CaliNotary DOES need to be snippy; it fills a large and aching void in his psyche. That void arose when his parents refused to take him out of training pants until he reached the 11th grade. CaliNotary never forgave them for not doing it earlier, like when he went into junior high school. The fact that school administrators, teachers, fellow students, the school custodial staff, his Sunday School instructors, and especially the fellow members of the wrestling team all implored his parents not to make the change did not matter to Cali; he still resented it, and continues to do so.

Reply by Charm_AL on 6/3/05 1:37pm
Msg #42107

Re: CALI

however...he is making great strides in his therapy sessions. I about fell out of my seat reading his last couple of comments. I thought he had a fever when he gave a compliment and welcomed a new notary.

Reply by CaliNotary on 6/4/05 12:52am
Msg #42250

Re: CALI

Heh. What can I say, I believe that if I'm willing to point out people's foibles (is that a nice word for it?) I should also be willing to point out some good things too. And when I see a prepared new notary on this board, it seems praiseworthy to me.

Or maybe it's just the fact that I've been having an active dating life lately (is that a nice word for it?)

Now kiss my butt!