Posted by SamIam_CA on 6/1/05 11:14am
Msg #41459

credible witness conundrum in California

Warning - this question may be so basic it causes the older/wiser groups heads to explode.

I don't think I understand how to do a credible witness signing correctly in CA.

Here is the pretend scenario. I have e-docs that I bring to Mr. and Mrs. Borrower. Mrs. Borrower just mis-placed her wallet that day. It can not be found. I need two credible witnesses to ID Mrs. B. as I do not know her and Mr. B is on the loan and therefore can not be used to ID his wife.

We get two of their neighbors over and they tell me "yes, that is Mrs. Borrower." Do I have each witness sign my MoJo where it says "method of Identification"? Is that it? Do I need the credible witnesses take an oath or something swearing to the fact they IDd Mrs. Borrower? Do I need to check the witnesses ID or record any info as to who they are?
I hate not being able to grasp this concept!

Reply by SarahBeth_CA on 6/1/05 11:31am
Msg #41468

In Gov. Code 8206 (d, and e) credible witnesses must be given oath, have ID recorded and sign journal.

Reply by SamIam_CA on 6/1/05 12:21pm
Msg #41485

** 8206 (d, and e)** paraphrased below - with more questions inserted...

(D) If identity was established by satisfactory evidence pursuant to Section 1185 of the Civil Code,
then the journal shall contain the signature of the credible witness swearing or affirming to
the identity of the individual...

Should I have them sign their names in my journal in the space where I usually write in the driver's license number or do I print their names in that spot?

(E) If the identity of the person making the acknowledgment or taking the oath or
affirmation was ***established by the oaths or affirmations*** of two credible witnesses...

Is their a pre-printed jurat form available for me to use in order to have the credible witness take an oath or affirm the borrower's identity?

...whose identities are proven upon the presentation of satisfactory evidence, the type of identifying documents, the identifying numbers of the documents and the dates of issuance or expiration of the documents presented by the witnesses to establish their identity.

And then I also fill out a journal line for each credible witness - right? Oy vey!

Reply by MaggieMae_CA on 6/1/05 12:27pm
Msg #41486

Sam... I have Credible Witness Acknowledgements or Jurats (the forms) I can't remember which. They're at home and I don't have them with me. Do you need the forms ASAP or can I fax them to you this evening?

Reply by SamIam_CA on 6/1/05 12:33pm
Msg #41491

YEA!!! I didn't even know there was such a thing. If you could fax later that would be swell. there is no rush as I am only creating the scenario in my head. I like to worry about things that might come up so I can be prepared just in case. THANK YOU!!!

fax is 619 265-8277 and I think you can also get the number from my profile link

Reply by MaggieMae_CA on 6/1/05 12:50pm
Msg #41509

ROLF!!!

You're too funny!!!... You made me laugh reading that you were creating scenarios in your head to prepare for. I'll fax over the form I have. I forget if it came with the "kit" I got when I purchased notary supplies thru notaryclasses.com or if it came from the order I placed when I purchased my Bond and E&O insurance.

Reply by MaggieMae_CA on 6/1/05 12:53pm
Msg #41511

ROFL

fingers and mind don't work at the same speed

Reply by SamIam_CA on 6/1/05 12:57pm
Msg #41515

Re: ROFL

better than right 1/2 and left 1/2 of brain being on different speeds

Reply by SarahBeth_CA on 6/1/05 1:10pm
Msg #41522

I have a MoJo, I would check the box that says satisfactory evidence, then put in the id box the names of the two winesses. In the ID box below I would put the ID info for the first CW then have them sign on the signature line next to thier ID box. Then below that ID box do the same for the second credible witness, and have them sign. In the additional info box for each CW I would note oath given and enter the address of CW. Then I would put a line thru the unused boxes in that line.

I have never heard of a credible witness form and I don't see anything in the CA handbook for one as a requirement.

Reply by Dotti_CA on 6/1/05 1:22pm
Msg #41528

The forms are definitely available.....I think through NNA is where I obtained mine. Lots of other forms too.

Reply by SarahBeth_CA on 6/1/05 1:26pm
Msg #41531

but what is the point of the forms if it is not required by state law?

Reply by MaggieMae_CA on 6/1/05 1:29pm
Msg #41532

To sell more forms and make more money for the form making companies

Okay... that aside, the form clarifies that credible witnesses were used and to me, it's easier to complete when using CW.

Reply by SarahBeth_CA on 6/1/05 1:39pm
Msg #41535

So it's purpose is to clarify for your own records, do you keep a separate file for these; and are they locked up? For me it just sounds like more work when all that is neccessary is a properly filled out journal.

Reply by SamIam_CA on 6/1/05 1:45pm
Msg #41537

**do you keep a separate file for these** or would you include them (the jurats) with all of the docs you are returning?

Reply by SamIam_CA on 6/1/05 1:43pm
Msg #41536

8206(E) If the identity of the person making the acknowledgment or taking the oath or
affirmation was ***established by the oaths or affirmations*** of two credible witnesses...

The forms might not be 'required' but it sure helps to prove that you did get them to swear to the identity of the person.

Reply by SarahBeth_CA on 6/1/05 1:49pm
Msg #41539

That is why we note in the additional info box that the oath was given. They are signing in your journal as a cw who was placed under oath as required. However, I would be interested in seeing one of these forms.

Reply by SamIam_CA on 6/1/05 2:02pm
Msg #41541

OH RIGHT - I'm starting to get it now. We'll have to see what forms Maggie (oops almost wrote her REAL name) finds at home.