Posted by TaraPA on 6/1/05 7:36am
Msg #41401

incapitated borrower

I have a signing today, and mrs. told me her husband is incapitated and I can't see him sign the documents (because he's messed up). I told her I just needed to check his ID and take a quick look at him to make sure he is who he say he is, and she's like I don't think so. While I'm trying to tell her that this may not be possible, she's saying this deal has to go down because of financial reasons. I will contact the signing agency, but they are on the west coast and I'm on the east. Any help would be appreciated!
P.S. She also asked me if I was afraid of dogs, cause she has two and she doesn't lock them up, but they don't bite!

Reply by BrendaTX on 6/1/05 7:49am
Msg #41402

**because he's messed up***

Tara, just curious, did she say that?

***Any help would be appreciated!***

If you were in Texas,

You would need to ID the husband.

You have to see him sign the documents for jurats.

You need to have him acknowledge he signed the documents for acks.

Reply by Tara Holley on 6/1/05 7:56am
Msg #41403

Yes she did. She told me after he signed, she would be able to give him his medications. I also asked her if he was fully aware of what he was signing and she said yes. She told me she had POA for him, but the docs were not drawn that way. I will not allow him to sign the documents and I can't witness, furthermore, I'm starting to feel uncomfortable about the entire situation.

Reply by Dave_CA on 6/1/05 8:47am
Msg #41407

Re: incapacitated borrower

Tara, This does not sound good. I'm agree with Brenda on this.
I don't know about PA but here you would need to ascertain that the borrower understood what he was signing and it was of his own free will as well as administering the oath or affirmation for the jurats. I'm not offering legal advice but you may want to seek some.

Reply by Charm_AL on 6/1/05 8:57am
Msg #41408

Re: incapacitated borrower

I agree with the others...it doesn't feel right to me, he needs to be cognitive and you need to ascertain that he is fully aware of what he's doing while observing him signing the docs after you ID him. If the wife won't let that happen, I'd refuse (after you tell the SS)

Reply by TaraPA on 6/1/05 9:44am
Msg #41416

Re: incapacitated borrower

All good advice.
I'm not feeling good about this. I've contacted the agency and waiting for a call back

Reply by TaraPA on 6/1/05 9:55am
Msg #41422

Re: incapacitated borrower

I've talke to tbe ss and she said the lo will contact the borrower. At this time, I'm not feeling comfortable, and I feel like refusing the job, but they have already overnighted me the docs.

Reply by SamIam_CA on 6/1/05 10:51am
Msg #41450

Re: incapacitated borrower

Just because you receive the overnighted docs does not mean you are obligated to do something illegal just to get them signed. Get you PA book handy (does PA have a book?) so when the SS tells you its okay for the man not to take the oath in front of you etc. you can quote them line and verse the specific statutes.

Reply by SarahBeth_CA on 6/1/05 11:08am
Msg #41457

all you can do is explain what the law requires to the borrower. If she refuses and you can't get a hold of the ss, then don't do the signing. Then when you do get with the ss explain to them what the law requires, and offer to do the job once borrower understands. Maybe after ss or lo speaks with the borrower she will understand and comply.

Reply by Joan-OH on 6/1/05 8:59pm
Msg #41675

"I told her I just needed to check his ID and take a quick look at him to make sure he is who he say he is, and she's like I don't think so"

My first thought is although you may not WANT to get involved, if the man is "messed up" and elderly, he may need protection. Be prepared to call whatever authorities you need to make it happen.

My second thought is you may not be able to "see" him because someone else is signing the documents for him in the other room - maybe a boyfriend?

Matter of fact, all possible scenarios I envision for this one are bad.

I haven't been faced with out & out fraud (to my knowledge) but it sounds like this one might qualify. If you go, take your hubby or boyfriend with you....at least to wait in the car.

Joan-OH