Posted by Art_MD on 3/4/05 7:16am
Msg #23577
Administering oath
As a bit of follow up on a previous thread ...
Many times, more than I like to count, when I ask the borrowers to raise their right hand, they say "what?". I then explain why. Many say that this is the first time I/we ever had to take an oath and this is our second/third/forth refinance.
I get the feeling that an awful lot of notaries are not administering oaths. Maybe its just a bunch of coincidences.
Anyone else notice this?
Art
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Reply by CaroleMI on 3/4/05 7:21am
Msg #23579
I had the same thing happen last Saturday. But, the borrowers chuckled and raised their right hand and took the oath.
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Reply by Sylvia_FL on 3/4/05 7:23am
Msg #23580
I find this out a lot. Borrowers often tell me that they have never had to take an oath before.
I did one signing recently for a title company. When I got to the signing the LO was there.
Later the title company told me the LO was very impressed, he said he always sits in on his closings and this is the first time he has seen the borrowers put under oath.
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Reply by Bobbi in CT on 3/4/05 7:41am
Msg #23583
No education, No E&O and No Bond State
I hear it ALL the time in connection with real estate documents.... going as far back as the 1970s.
When it is dealing with litigation, the signers always remember taking an oath or affirmation (usually from an attorney, paralegal or Court clerk in a law firm environment).
My take is that in no/minimal education states, the giving of an oath is just skimmed over or not taken seriously. Further, I haven't heard of any high cost lawsuit against a notary for not complying exactly with the proper procedure. In the 2002 Rev. Notary Public Manual, Sec. 4.8 sets out model language and the process for an oath or affirmation. It does not, however, go far enough to state that that Connecticut law Specifically REQUIRES the raising of the affiant's right hand.
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Reply by Ninna Mantooth-Lopez on 3/4/05 8:57am
Msg #23593
Bobbi hit the nail on the head...
I started in this business in 1983... working for a real estate attorney. Then in 1993, I moved on to a title company for another 8 years. I've never heard or seen anyone ever give an oath on a loan document signing up until I became an independent signing agent in 2002. When I was commissioned (it was a long time ago... so my memory may be a little fuzzy)... I don't ever even recall them going over giving an oath in the classes I took, nor was it mentioned during testing. Based upon my own personal experience in the industry... right or wrong... I know it's not customary to administer an oath, which is why borrowers always seemed shocked when a notary administers one.
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Reply by Jayme in PA on 3/4/05 9:49am
Msg #23597
Re: Bobbi hit the nail on the head...
I also have worked in a real estate attorney's office for many years. I have been involved in most aspects of the closing process and I have seen quite a few closings over the years. I have yet to see an attorney or settlement agent administer an oath in regards to signing loan documents.
I have just started to read the board and my interest was peaked by the notary administering an oath.
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Reply by Shirley/CA on 3/4/05 11:06am
Msg #23602
Almost every time they say they never had to do that before and usually think it's funny.
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Reply by Stephen/VA on 3/4/05 11:10am
Msg #23604
When I administer the oaths and the verbal acknowledgments, people have commented that they have not done it before on other loans. So be it, I will do it my way. 
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Reply by Stephanie/CA on 3/4/05 11:14am
Msg #23606
I let the signer know that I am required to administer an oath....I do not notarize doc until I have given the oath...I continue with the following....at this point, they understand how serious I am...
“Do you solemnly swear or affirm under penalty of perjury
that the contents of the document you are about to sign are
true and correct?”
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Reply by Art_MD on 3/4/05 11:24am
Msg #23607
I go through all the documents first and then go back and do the signing. Some time the borrowers are real friendly.
When administering the oath, after they say "I DO", i say "I now pronounce you..." and stop there. Really breaks the ice, a few comments have been "not again ...I did that 22 years ago !!", "or no, not again"
Art
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Reply by Jon on 3/4/05 12:00pm
Msg #23614
I also get the same response. Just as a side note, many loans are not required to have an oath administered. Oaths are only for jurats, not acknowledgements(at least in Ca). I have had many loans that had no jurats in the package, only acknowledgements.
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Reply by Art_MD on 3/4/05 12:29pm
Msg #23622
Requirements vary by state. MD - we noterize acknowledgements which means an oath or affirmation .
Art
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Reply by PAW_Fl on 3/4/05 1:32pm
Msg #23643
I believe you are mistaken, Art. You can either take an acknowledgement or administer an oath (or affirmation). An acknowledgment is simply that, you acknowledge the signature and the signer stated that he signed the document. (Under his own free will with full understanding of the contents.) When an oath or affirmation is administered, the signer is placed under oath to swear to the contents of the document as being true and accurate.
The certificate is simply the notary record of the act, either an acknowledgment stating that the signature was acknowledged or a jurat which states the an oath was given and the signers swear to the contents.
From the MD notary manual: The certificate of the notary public is a form of receipt which the notary completes to show that an acknowledgment has been taken or oath administered. The certificate of a notary public is the act of an officer of the State, and, therefore, carries great legal weight.
Also: 38. What is an acknowledgment? An acknowledgment is a statement by a person who has executed a document that the document is his or her act and deed. An acknowledgment is made to the notary public, but is not an oath or affirmation of truth — it is a statement that a certain person did something of his or her own free will.
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Reply by Art_MD on 3/4/05 1:43pm
Msg #23645
Re: PAW - correct, as he usually is..
I mis typed (since I can't say mis-spoke). Acknowledgements require no oath or affirmation.
Art
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Reply by Ernest_CT on 3/4/05 12:55pm
Msg #23631
Having the signer choose which oath
In CT there are two forms of the oath, with which mentions God and one which mentions purjury. Do other folks here ask signers which they prefer? I say "I'm going to give you an oath. Do you believe in God?" How do the rest of you feel about that?
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Reply by Stephen/VA on 3/4/05 1:26pm
Msg #23641
Re: Having the signer choose which oath
I use the secular version. Unless you know the laws, you wouldn't realize that the religious version exists. So it is just an "affirmation".
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Reply by Art_MD on 3/4/05 1:45pm
Msg #23647
Re: Having the signer choose which oath
I just use the secular one. Why open the door to a problem.
Art
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