Posted by Carol Lynn Lengyel on 3/13/05 11:51am
Msg #25257

Copy of Commission and Seal

I have been registering my serivces with on line companies and find that many of them require you to submit a copy of your commission as well as a copy of your seal along with your application materials. I don't feel good about that and was taught to never give copies of these items. Seems curious that so many companies are asking for this. Aren't they aware of the exclusivety of these items? I'd rather loose a signing than my identity or commission.

Reply by LawrenceOK on 3/13/05 12:09pm
Msg #25258

Lots of companies want you to submit this info. You can send a copy of you commission, but check with your SOS concerning you stamp. It may be illegal in you state. I send a copy of my Bond, which has copies of my stamp on it, and I croos through those.

Reply by Dave_CA on 3/13/05 12:12pm
Msg #25259

Re: Copy of Commission and Seal + DL & SS#

In CA it is illegal to use our seal for anything other than carrying out our official duties so I never comply with this particular request. I do provide a copy of my commission when requested and don't see a problem with doing so.

I have a much greater concern with the requests for a copy of my driver’s license and my social security #.

I have refused to provide a copy of my DL and I've obtained an EIN so that I never have to give my SS #.

I'm too new as a signing agent to tell if refusing to give a copy of my DL has cost me any business and I'd welcome any advice from the more experienced folks.

I do have experience in internet security from my previous career and I strongly urge everyone to get an EIN, it can be done on-line or by phone in a matter of minutes, and never to give out their SS # or DL #.

Obviously just my opinion and not legal advice.

Reply by Carol Lynn Lengyel on 3/13/05 12:41pm
Msg #25264

Re: Copy of Commission and Seal + DL & SS#

Thank you for the suggestion about the EIN. I went directly to the IRS.gov website and in a matter of minutes I obtained an EIN. Thank you for the "peer support", it's invaluable.

Reply by Stephen/VA on 3/13/05 3:59pm
Msg #25282

Re: Copy of Commission and Seal + DL & SS#

I am not a lawyer... but just out of curiosity I looked at the CA notary handbook. It says the seal can only be used while providing "notarial services" this seems to be different than other language that says "notarial act". If a company wants a copy as a prereq to hire you that sounds like part of your "services" to me, whereas the actual notarization is the "act".

Notice the use of "service" in regard to your title which is clearly something you can advertise.

-----------------------------------------
§ 8207. Seal
A notary public shall provide and keep an official seal, which shall clearly show, when embossed, stamped, impressed or affixed to a document, the name of the notary, the State Seal, the words "Notary Public," and the name of the county wherein the bond and oath of office are filed, and the date the notary public's commission expires. The seal of every notary public commissioned on or after January 1, 1992, shall contain the sequential identification number assigned to the notary and the sequential identification number assigned to the manufacturer or vendor. The notary public shall authenticate with the official seal all official acts.

A notary public shall not use the official notarial seal except for the purpose of carrying out the duties and responsibilities as set forth in this chapter. A notary public shall not use the title "notary public" except for the purpose of rendering notarial service.

The seal of every notary public shall be affixed by a seal press or stamp that will print or emboss a seal which legibly reproduces under photographic methods the required elements of the seal. The seal may be circular not over two inches in diameter, or may be a rectangular form of not more than one inch in width by two and one-half inches in length, with a serrated or milled edged border, and shall contain the information required by this section.

The seal shall be kept in a locked and secured area, under the direct and exclusive control of the notary. Failure to secure the seal shall be cause for the Secretary of State to take administrative action against the commission held by the notary public pursuant to Section 8214.1.

The official seal of a notary public is the exclusive property of that notary public, and shall not be surrendered to an employer upon the termination of employment, whether or not the employer paid for the seal, or to any other person. The notary, or his or her representative, shall destroy or deface the seal upon termination, resignation, or revocation of the notary’s commission.

This section shall become operative on January 1, 1992.

Reply by Stephen/VA on 3/13/05 4:01pm
Msg #25283

Re: Copy of Commission and Seal + DL & SS#

hehe... actually they use "services" in other parts of the document.. then don't use that language in the actual section that defines it. Oh well. Lawyers...

Reply by Stephen/VA on 3/13/05 4:03pm
Msg #25284

Re: Copy of Commission and Seal + DL & SS#

this forum needs an "edit" button

Reply by PAW_Fl on 3/13/05 4:18pm
Msg #25287

Re: Copy of Commission and Seal + DL & SS#

The first sentence of the second paragraph says, "A notary public shall not use the official notarial seal except for the purpose of carrying out the duties and responsibilities as set forth in this chapter."

Signing up with a signing service is not a "duty or responsibility" of a Notary Public as set forth in that chapter.

The term "notary public" can be used for rendering notarial service. (Whatever "service" means.)

Reply by kellieco on 3/13/05 6:57pm
Msg #25308

Re: Copy of Commission and Seal + DL & SS#

who do you contact to do this?

Reply by Korey Humphreys on 3/13/05 12:23pm
Msg #25260

Yeah the companies usually request everything except our pulse rate and waste size!!

I have no problem with sending anybody a copy of commission certificate. Massachusetts commission certificates only give our name and the date of which we took the oath of office.

I write void over my seal and only use my ink seal. I never just emboss a blank document and send it. That would be unethical.

So far the Secretary of State and/or Governor and his council hasn't really said anything about whether or not the practice would be considered illegal. (RE: Massachusetts)

Reply by Reggie on 3/13/05 6:35pm
Msg #25304

Most Companies clearly say a Voided copy of your seal. In my non-lawyer world I think It would be ok to do this because it is not on an official document and it is voided so no one can use it for official business.

Reggie
Kansas

Reply by Don_CA on 3/13/05 6:44pm
Msg #25306

I am having a terrible problem understanding ones reluctance to give their SSA number, yes I know of identity thief, but if I were to apply for a job tomorrow the employer would ask for my SSA number and I would furnish it. What is the problem furnishing it to someone who will be paying me as a self employed contractor? I believe we are making a big deal out of nothing. If that is what the SS wants that is what they shall get. Now my seal I do not furnish to the SS service. I provide a copy of my commission, my bond, and my E&O insurance, nothing more. Relax folks, no one is out to steal your identity on this board.

Reply by PAW_Fl on 3/13/05 8:02pm
Msg #25311

Here's the problem as I see it and why I won't furnish my SSN. I will provide my EIN.

First and foremost, I don't know who these signing services are. They could be a one or two person operation that has no background to look at. Second, when you apply to be employed, you are interviewed by the company. At that time, you can interview the company. I don't think you'd be applying blindly to companies whom you have no idea who they are, what their motives are, etc. I don't want to sound like an alarmist, and the chances are pretty slim that it would turn out that way, but... why take the chance in the first place.

All too often these companies provide internet sign up forms that are "in the clear". That is, the data isn't protected from anybodys prying eyes.

Finally, I am a business person. I register to work as a business entity and that entity has its own identification number, therefore I use it.