Posted by Cherilyn Clark on 3/23/05 9:33am
Msg #27197

Have you ever been asked not to date the RTC?

This was a first for me last night. Sticky notes on each copy said not to date, at all. There were no dates at all on the form.

This threw me for a loop and I stammered trying to explain this to the borrower as she asked why there was no dates on it.

Has anyone ever ran across this? And what's your explanation to the borrower?

Reply by Cherilyn Clark on 3/23/05 9:34am
Msg #27198

and why is there not an orange square by my name?

I'm logged in and I'm a premier member?

Reply by LawrenceOK on 3/23/05 9:38am
Msg #27200

Re: and why is there not an orange square by my name?

There IS an orange square beside your name

Reply by jojo_MN on 3/23/05 9:38am
Msg #27201

Re: and why is there not an orange square by my name?

The only time I was asked to do this was when there was a split signing. The wife signed the first day, then it was overnighted to me, then the husband signed the second day. It tile company wanted us to use the husbands signature as the RTC date. The RTC is always after the last person signs.

Reply by Slarty_FL on 3/23/05 9:52am
Msg #27205

Re: and why is there not an orange square by my name?

My understanding is that the RTC is not when the last person signs, but that each person gets their OWN RTC. If the wife signs on the 15th, she has until the 18th (assuming no Sun/Holidays) to cancel...if the husband signs on the 19th, HE has until the 22nd, but the wife does not.

Can anyone verify/contradict this?

Reply by jojo_MN on 3/23/05 10:01am
Msg #27206

Re: and why is there not an orange square by my name?

The title company told me that there is only one right of cancel date no matter how many signers and it is the third day after the last signer.

Reply by PAW_Fl on 3/23/05 12:02pm
Msg #27225

Re: and why is there not an orange square by my name?

The title company is wrong. According to Title 12 (the code that deals with the RTC), each person has their own. That means, each individual has the right to cancel according to when the three requirements are met for each of them.

However, from the lender's perspective, nothing can be done until the expiration of the latest RTC, which is why some will say there's only one RTC date. There really is only one RTC date that matters!

Reply by jojo_MN on 3/23/05 9:39am
Msg #27202

Re: and why is there not an orange square by my name?

You probably didn't check to attach your link.

Reply by Cherilyn on 3/23/05 10:14am
Msg #27208

Okay, I found the orange square :-) nt

Reply by Mysti_FL on 3/23/05 9:43am
Msg #27203

Why is there even a problem?

I'm actually starting to think that the big deal made of the RTC is absurd. The RTC clearly states "you have a legal right.....to cancel this transaction.....within three business days from whichever of the following events occurs last: Date of transaction (typed date), or, Date you receive your TIL disclosures, or Date you received this notice of RTC (which is the date of signature).

So why are there issues of changing dates, etc? Although I do have them cross out and initial changes, I don't see why there is a need for that.

Reply by Art_MD on 3/23/05 9:51am
Msg #27204

Re: Why is there even a problem?

To start the 3 day countdown, one of these documents has to have a date on it.
1. The RTC
2. The TIL
3. date the docs are signed. (probably the key doc would be the DOT or note.)

Fed law dictates the giving of 2 copies of RTC. I don't think any lender will process paperwork without a signed RTC. If it is undated, then the start date of the 3 days would be the latest date on item 2 or 3 above.

Art

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 3/23/05 11:21am
Msg #27216

I have come across it with Millennia Mortgage loans.
There is usually one form in there that the borrowers do sign and date and the RTC dates are in there. Then there are a couple of copies that they sign and date and the RTC dates are blank. As long as the borrowers date their signature there should be no problem as the RTC date is specified as three days from when they signed the document.

I always make sure that the copies the borrowers receive has the RTC dates on them.

Reply by Mary Pierce/PA on 3/23/05 11:46am
Msg #27222

But why are they asking her to "not" date the RTC? Is that legal?

Reply by PAW_Fl on 3/23/05 12:11pm
Msg #27229

IMO (not a legal opinion), it is not legal. Title 12 specifically states 5 elements required to be on the notice of right to rescind. Note item #5...

(b) Notice of right to rescind. In any transaction or occurrence
subject to rescission, a creditor shall deliver two copies of the notice
of the right to rescind to each consumer entitled to rescind (one copy
to each if the notice is delivered by electronic communication as
provided in Sec. 226.36(b)). The notice shall identify the transaction
or occurrence and clearly and conspicuously disclose the following:
(1) The retention or acquisition of a security interest in the
consumer's principal dwelling.
(2) The consumer's right to rescind, as described in paragraph
(a)(1) of this section.
(3) How to exercise the right to rescind, with a form for that
purpose, designating the address of the creditor's place of business.
(4) The effects of rescission, as described in paragraph (d) of this
section.
(5) The date the rescission period expires.


You can read the actual text of the entire section at http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422/14mar20010800/edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2002/janqtr/12cfr226.15.htm

Reply by ColleenCA on 3/23/05 12:23pm
Msg #27232

Exactly right, and if the SS is telling her to leave it blank, I would tell the SS that I would not be conducting the signing, pure and simple.

Reply by Mary Pierce/PA on 3/23/05 12:13pm
Msg #27230

Cherilyn - what did you end up doing? I would have called the SS. Did you call them?

Reply by Cherilyn on 3/23/05 1:30pm
Msg #27242

It was the mortgage company that requested it...

and not a SS, btw.

Anyway, it was late at night and I knew I would not be able to get ahold of anyone. I explained to the borrowers that all of the other docs were dated for that day, so there wouldn't be any question as to the recision deadline, if it came to that.

I also told them that I would understand if they didn't feel comfortable continuing the signing.

They did sign as they were eager to close.

I think I'm going to give the mortgage company a call and see why they do that. I'll post when they give me an explanation.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 3/23/05 6:42pm
Msg #27308

Re: It was the mortgage company that requested it...

They probably meant not to fill in the recission dates, but I would have the borrowers date their signature, so there is a record of when they signed it, and the recission period starts the day after they sign.

As I said, I have had one company, Millennia Mortgage put post its on two copies of the RTC saying not to date, but there is always one in there that is dated.