Posted by GayLynn-UT on 3/2/05 3:48pm
Msg #23308

I've Gotta Gripe

Yesterday I accepted an appointment, borrower info was faxed to me. Phone numbers included home and work. I called the home last night, left a message on one of those automated answering machines that doesn't identify the recipient's name. I leave a message and receive no return call. Today I call the phone number listed for work. Receptionist answers, I ask for the borrower, she asks me "Who's calling?" I say "My first name is Gaylynn and it's a personal matter." She presses me as to the nature of my call so I say something like "it's about a loan." She continues asking "What bank are you with?" I reply "I'm not with a bank; if this is a problem, I won't bother." She asks me to hold. The borrower comes on the line and begins to tell me that he didn't appreciate me telling the receptionist what I was calling about and that he "prefers to leave his private affairs separate from his place of employment." He then tells me he received my phone message from the night before, but didn't have time to call. Of course I apologized, but I'm thinking "Well, if you want to remain so private, why don't you return your PRIVATE phone calls in a timely fashion!!!"

Just had to gripe...Thanx for listening!

Reply by Lee/AR on 3/2/05 3:53pm
Msg #23309

Just a friendly tip: NEVER say 'loan'... whether it's their home phone or business or cell. You're a Notary calling to confirm a DOCUMENT signing with (B's name) on (date, time). "Documents" can be anything... a loan is a loan.

Reply by GayLynn-UT on 3/2/05 4:14pm
Msg #23314

That's a great tip, Lee. Thank you, I'll remember that.

Reply by PAW_Fl on 3/2/05 4:20pm
Msg #23316

I also suggest you never say the borrowers name, but simply state your name and phone number, that you need to confirm a document signing appointment and ask for them to return your call. Sometimes, the numbers listed on the confirmation are wrong, or someone other than the intended signer listens to the message.

Reply by PAW_Fl on 3/2/05 4:42pm
Msg #23318

Re: I've Gotta Gripe - Clarification

My previous information is when you get a HOME answering machine. Obviously, when you call someone's place of employment, you need to give the signer's name. However, I would simply state that I just need to confirm an appointment with <signer> and not give the receptionist, secretary or anyone any further information. If they don't want to connect you, fine, give them your name and number and ask to have the signer call you back.

Reply by CarolynCO on 3/2/05 8:12pm
Msg #23332

I won't even say anything about Documents. Receptionists are *gate keepers* and think or expect to know everything that's happening. I simply ask for Mr. or Mrs. so and so and give my name. When asked what the call is about, I simply say it's a personal matter and say no more. If the receptionist persists, I simply give my name and number and request that my call be returned ASAP. The receptionist needs to know nothing more.

Reply by Charm_AL on 3/2/05 3:55pm
Msg #23311

Yes, borrowers would get upset with others knowing their personal info. I had to call one at work, when asked I said my name, when pressed I said I was calling to confirm an appt.

I've had borrowers not call me back before, so I just go anyway. You should get a trip fee for a no show.

Reply by Roger/OH on 3/2/05 4:19pm
Msg #23315

I wouldn't even say it was for documents. All the receptionist needs to know is that you're a notary confirming a personal appointment with the person, period.

Reply by GayLynn-UT on 3/2/05 5:33pm
Msg #23323

All good suggestions! Thanks again all!

Reply by Ted_MI on 3/2/05 6:08pm
Msg #23328

GayLynn,

With all due respect, I think you can appreciate that you really don't have any basis for having a gripe. I think that you can understand from the comments that have been made that you were way too specific in your response to the receptionist. I am not surprised at all that the borrower was steamed. I would have been too. You just have to be as general as possible. I agree 100 percent with those posters who said they were calling about an "appointment" and just left it at that.

Reply by GayLynn-UT on 3/2/05 6:31pm
Msg #23330

Gee, Ted, I guess I just felt I could vent to the folks on this board as "friends" in the same business. As I've only been doing this business for a short time, and believe you me, I've learned from this experience and I certainly won't make the same mistake again.

Reply by PAW_Fl on 3/2/05 7:48pm
Msg #23331

Personally I didn't see anything that should ruffle your feathers. Granted, it is hard sometimes to swallow some constructive criticism, but it was all meant in fairness to you to as a learning experience. No one is condemning you for your actions, just providing a critique from what you posted.

Feel free to vent anytime, but on the flip side, be prepared for some direct comments. Some folks write with sharper pens than others, so be prepared and try not to read between the lines. Voice inflection and body English don't make it through on the written word.

Reply by Ted_MI on 3/2/05 8:32pm
Msg #23340

Heh, GayLynn,

Look, I still feel you should feel free to vent on this board. There is nothing wrong with that; nothing wrong with that whatsoever. But by the same token, I think you should understand that people such as myself should have the right to honestly respond to the feelings that you have expressed. And that is exactly what I did.

If you are looking for the type of environment where everyone is going to support you irrespective of what you have stated (or done), let me ask you what benefit is that going to confer upon you? What lessons will you have learned?

Reply by CarolynCO on 3/2/05 8:30pm
Msg #23338

Re: Also be aware ...

if going to a place of business for signing. My second or third signing I went to this guy's place of business. It was his own business actually. It was after that signing, that I began ALWAYS verifying addresses in addition to the drill of telling them to make copies of their drivers licenses in the initial call. SS had the wrong address on confirmation. The address, in fact, didn't exist. Finally, I drove into the parking lot of a high-rise building that I suspected was where I was supposed to be.

I was getting my briefcase out of my vehicle at the same time another man was getting out of a vehicle. He stopped on the sidewalk as if he was waiting for me. I asked him if he worked in the building and he said yes. I asked him if such and such business was located in the building and he said yes. So and so (borrower's first name) is here, there's his vehicle. He asked who I was and I said a Notary. He said, so and so had his own Notary, why did he need me? I said it was a personal matter between Mr. so and so and me. He said what kind of personal matter? I said I have an appointment with him. He just kept on drilling me, and I just kept being evasive. I finally told him that since I didn't have an appointment with him, that I didn't think I needed to take up any more of his time. He actually followed me into the guy's office and asked him point blank what his business with me was.

Just be careful of what you say not only on the phone but also to neighbors, whether they be "neighborhood" neighbors at the home or at their business.

Reply by ann/OH on 3/2/05 9:03pm
Msg #23349

Re: I've Gotta Gripe- to Ted_MI


Man, I read and read these posts and Ted_MI, I must say, you are probably the most pessimistic, arrogant person on NotaryRotary. Not only do you act as if you know "it" all, but you consistantly try to "twist" the knife, with your little remarks like ..."With all due respect, I think you can appreciate that you really don't have any basis for having a gripe".

I sincerely doubt you're intending your statement as to be in any way respectful. And any person with half a brain can read that you are being condescending. You have NO idea what-so-ever HOW the receptionist came across or "pushed" BUT you seem to need to make a point that Gaylynn made a mistake...because from what you continue to imply in YOUR posts, is that you do no wrong!

But instead of saying something positive and give an example or alternative like others...instead of agreeing 100% with blah, blah, blah....maybe show some compassion and not be a jackass if you can.

Reply by Ted_MI on 3/2/05 10:29pm
Msg #23370

Re: I've Gotta Gripe- to Ted_MI

Hi Ann,

You know what - I think when you get right down to it she really screwed up!! I think she has no basis whatsoever to have a gripe. She never should have mentioned to the receptionist that she was calling with respect to a loan. What business was it of the receptionist? None whatsoever!! Please enlighten me as to how this was her business! From my perspective, she should have said that she was calling with respect to an appointment.

If I had been the borrower in question, I would have been very upset with her too.

I am sorry; that is my considered opinion. And if you don't like it, well that is your prerogative.

Reply by fiKS on 3/2/05 11:33pm
Msg #23377

Re: I've Gotta Gripe- to Ted_MI

I agree with Ted too and I didn't find anything condescending in his post at all. As a matter of fact, I've never found Ted's posts to be anything like that.

No matter what or how the receptionist pushed for information, there certainly was no need to give her any personal information. Money matter is a very personal issue, no one needs to know who is applying for a loan and from which bank! Ted simply, honestly stated this fact, and did so with respect.

Reply by Jon on 3/3/05 11:25am
Msg #23430

Re: I've Gotta Gripe- to Ted_MI

Ted,

I agree with Ann, how can you be so cold and heartless??!!?? I just wish CaliNotary was here to give some warm fuzzies.

What is this board coming too?!?!?!?!?

Reply by Jon on 3/3/05 11:26am
Msg #23431

Should be "to" not "too"...... n/m

Reply by Paul_IL on 3/3/05 12:18pm
Msg #23440

Re: I've Gotta Gripe- to Ted_MI

Ted,
You are being an A$$

The original poster made a simple mistake as everyone pointed out. Some companies tell their receptionists to press for information to weed out sales people, bill collectors, personal business calls etc...
It was wrong to get too specific but the borrower should also have called back either that night or that next morning.

Let it go>>>>>>>>

Reply by Charm_AL on 3/2/05 11:01pm
Msg #23373

wow

obviously ann hasn't read this board much...

Reply by CarolynCO on 3/2/05 11:10pm
Msg #23375

Re: GayLynn and Ann

Venting and griping are one thing, but when you post, and don't get "rah-rah thata [girl/guy] pat you on the back responses" you can't get defensive.

As with Paul, I personally didn't see anything in Ted's post to to get ruffled about.

Reply by Ernest_CT on 3/3/05 12:36am
Msg #23387

Re: GayLynn and Ann

Nothing wrong with Ted's response at all, IMHO. And he kept his cool when somebody dumped on him needlessly. Ted, you're a class act! Illegitimi non carborundum.

Reply by CarolynCO on 3/3/05 8:10am
Msg #23410

Re: Another spin to your gripe ...

is the Borrower's own gripe, which he very well may report to his lender, who will report to the SS that hired you.

Reply by LawrenceOK on 3/3/05 8:53am
Msg #23415

Re: Another spin to your gripe ...

Now that we all agree that it is none of the receptionists business what the call is about,(which I have more then once told one) what if it's the borrowers personal secretary? I was once told by one that she handled all of his (borrower) personal and business appointments. I told her to tell her boss I would meet him at his home at 7:00pm for a document signing.

Reply by Terri - CA on 3/3/05 10:36am
Msg #23421

What I've done when I call someone's place of work is provide my name, and state that I'm calling to confirm an appointment, when they ask what company I'm with, I just state that it's a personal matter or that there isn't a company name depending on how I'm asked. When pushed to provide additional information, my response is "I'm not at liberty to provide that information." Then I ask to leave a message.

Terri
Lancaster, CA

Reply by fiKS on 3/3/05 10:54am
Msg #23425

I really don't see why there should be any more questions once we say that we are calling on a personal matter....unless it is the borrower's personal assistant who took the call. Then the most I would reveal is that I'm a notary public period.

Reply by Paul/MD on 3/3/05 12:24pm
Msg #23442

Fair Debt and Collection Practices Act (FDCPA)


Although it is unclear that 'we' as Notary Closers fall under FDCPA Regulations.... it has been brought up and is being studied by lawmakers.

The FDCPA prohibits lender's or those working for lenders to discuss or even mention the word "loan" when you are speaking to anyone other than the borrower. FDCPA specifically mentions that you may NOT leave messages on an answering machine saying "this is regarding your loan, your account, closing" etc... you may leave your name and number for the borrower to return your call... that is it.

This is to maintain privacy and so no information may be mistakingly given to anyone else, including another family member.

The law was put into effect for unfair collection practices, however, now has been adopted and added to the Fair Credit Act which regulates Lenders as well as their Collections Departmet and any assignees.

Reply by PAW_Fl on 3/3/05 12:54pm
Msg #23449

Re: Fair Debt and Collection Practices Act (FDCPA)

The "other" Paul stated: "Although it is unclear that 'we' as Notary Closers fall under FDCPA Regulations.... it has been brought up and is being studied by lawmakers."

It is my understanding, that 'we' as Notary Signing Agents are bound by contract to abide by the regulations of the contractor. Therefore, since the lender is bound to follow the FCA and FDCPA, the lender contracts a title company, the title company, by contract extension, is also bound by those regs. Further, the title company contracts a NSA, the NSA by the same extension, is bound by the regs. The same applies to all policies, such as the Privacy Act.

As a take-off on a well known adage, policies flow downhill.

Reply by Paul/MD on 3/3/05 1:33pm
Msg #23460

Re: Fair Debt and Collection Practices Act (FDCPA)



PAW,

I didn't want to get deep into FDCPA..... I've studied/worked with FDCPA caselaws since 1991. There are too many 'grey' areas. At one time Lenders didn't have to follow FDCPA, only their assignees or contractors. In 2000-2001 this changed. BUT, also FCA and FDCPA also changed in 2001 specifically stating that during a conversation with a borrower the followng MUST be said "any information obtained from this communication/call may be used in an attempt to resolve this matter"..... OK - that's fine, but when we are calling to schedule an appt.... that really doesn't apply to us and sounds like we are trying to get one up on the borrower (especially borrower's who have had collection problems, bankruptcy etc...) YET - the law is still there....

So, in 2002 lawmakers backed off of lenders and 'certain' vendors which would have to comply to the above. Well, its unclear since not specifically written if we fall under 'certain vendors'.

I tried to give the short version earlier so it would not complicate anyone. LOL

Reply by PAW_Fl on 3/3/05 2:04pm
Msg #23472

Re: Fair Debt and Collection Practices Act (FDCPA)

I understand, Paul, and that's why I related it to the adage I did. Though it is on the books, enforcement is tough at best, and these policies and acts are so "grey", as you said, it is up to case law to make head or tales out of them sometimes. The authors used a very wide brush in painting these things, and the white-wash brushes used to clean them up sometimes make them worse than what they were.

Just think where we'd be if it weren't for the lawyers. (Okay, so we probably would be better off, but.... )