Posted by Northern CA signer on 3/23/05 2:25pm
Msg #27244

Not notarized?

Someone tell me I am crazy. I just signed the refi docs at our local title company, for the refinance on my own house. The escrow assistant notaized the Deed of Trust and had me sign her book as I anticipated. However, the only other notarization in the docs was for a Signature/Name affidavit. When she notarized this, she did not record it in her book nor ask for my signature in her journal.

What am I missing here?

Thanks.

Reply by CaliNotary on 3/23/05 2:45pm
Msg #27249

Did she have a MoJo from this site? That would only require one signature.

Reply by Northern CA signer on 3/23/05 2:57pm
Msg #27252

Cali Notary:

Your question gave me pause. So I phoned the NNA to ask them about the situation. They said that any journal that allows the signer to sign only once for more than one document, is not legal in California. So maybe I don't understand how tht MoJo journal works.

Reply by CaliNotary on 3/23/05 3:04pm
Msg #27255

Well calling the NNA was your first mistake. Just another example to throw on the pile of erroneous information that they've given to their members.

There was a thread on this board a few months ago where I'm pretty sure Harry addressed the question of the legal aspects of the MoJo. If you do a search you can probably find it.

Reply by Marla_NorCal on 3/23/05 3:56pm
Msg #27259

TRY MESSAGE # 543 N/M

Reply by AngieCA on 3/23/05 4:11pm
Msg #27260

Journal

Hi, I too had the same experience (except she notarized about 4 docs). I asked the Notary why. She said she completes her journal later using ditto marks after my signature. NOt the way I would do it.

Reply by Jon on 3/23/05 6:08pm
Msg #27288

The main contention point is the sequence of all notarial acts in the journal. The law states that "A notary public shall keep one active sequential journal at a time, of all official acts performed as a notary public." The NNA view is that if you list all of the docs on one line, they are not in sequence, and therefore in violation of the law. I have been using one line for my entries for 8 years, I list each individual doc in the order I notarize them. I have not yet bought a MoJo as I have several NNA journals left(I used to buy ten or fifteen at a time).

Reply by Cindy-CA on 3/23/05 4:22pm
Msg #27262

Although I'm trembling in asking this question for fear I'm going to be crucified by the seasoned notaries on this board, are you saying that you have borrowers sign your journal for EVERY signature you notarize? I've been having them sign my journal for the ENTIRE loan package. Is this incorrect?

Reply by Stephanie/CA on 3/23/05 4:41pm
Msg #27267

I am in California and have always had the signer sign each line.
You see,
The way I do it is a separate journal line per signature notarized.
I then have the signer sign each line individually.
If I am ever asked in a position where a line in my journal is legally requested, I can provide a line with all of the information including a signature and thumbprint.

This is the way I have always handled journal entries.

Reply by Monica/CA on 3/23/05 4:53pm
Msg #27274

I have always done the same thing.. just put "Loan documents" and had them sign and got thumbprint,... Uh oh... but signing in book for EVERY doc notarized... I better look into somemore

Reply by PAW_Fl on 3/23/05 5:07pm
Msg #27276

>>> Uh oh... but signing in book for EVERY doc notarized... I better look into somemore <<<

May I suggest you search your notary handbook. The following is an excerpt from the 2005 edition: (Note item #2)

=================================================================
The journal shall include the items shown below. (Government Code Section 8206(a))

1. Date, time and type of each official act (acknowledgment or jurat).
2. Character of every instrument acknowledged or proved before the notary (e.g. deed of trust)
3. The signature of each person whose signature is being notarized.
4. A statement as to whether the identity of a person making an acknowledgment was based on personal knowledge or satisfactory evidence. If identity was established by satisfactory evidence pursuant to Section 1185 of the Civil Code, then the journal shall contain the signature of the credible witness swearing or affirming to the identity of the individual or the type of identifying document, the governmental agency issuing the document, the serial or identifying number of the document, and the date of issue or expiration of the document(e.g., driver’s license, Department of Motor Vehicles, #X00000, 00/00/00.)
5. If the identity of the person making the acknowledgment was established by the oaths or affirmations of two credible witnesses whose identities are proven upon the presentation of satisfactory evidence, the type of identifying documents, the identifying numbers of the documents and the dates of issuance or expiration of the documents presented by the witnesses to establish their identity. (e.g., driver’s license, Department of Motor Vehicles, #X00000, 00/00/00.)
6. The fee charged for the notarial service.
7. If the document to be notarized is a deed, quitclaim deed, or deed of trust affecting real property, the notary public shall require the party signing the document to place his or her right thumbprint in the journal. If the right thumbprint is not available, then the notary shall have the party use his or her left thumb, or any available finger and shall so indicate in the journal. If the party signing the document is physically unable to provide a thumb or fingerprint, the notary shall so indicate in the journal and shall also provide an explanation of that physical condition.

Reply by Slarty_FL on 3/23/05 5:50pm
Msg #27281

PAW,

Of course we're not REQUIRED to use a journal here in the Sunshine State (tm), but I use one anyway. What I do for multiple signings is write out a line for each document with all pertinent info, but then in the signature block I draw a diagonal line from the lower left corner of the bottom line to the upper right corner of the top line that all involve the same signer, and then have them sign once across the line and provide one thumbprint. If the line items go over more than one page, I do this on each page. What are your thoughts on this procedure? TIA

Reply by PAW_Fl on 3/23/05 6:12pm
Msg #27289

If that works for you (a diagonal line from the lower left corner of the bottom line to the upper right corner of the top line that all involve the same signer, and then have them sign once across the line and provide one thumbprint) then it is good.

Personally, I use the MoJo and do not require thumb prints. I used to do it "your way" until Harry invented a better way.

We aren't directed in what to record (or even to record anything), but, imo, a prudent notary will keep accurate transactional records. Just remember, FL statutes forbids the notary from maintaining copies of the documents we notarize for others.

Reply by Cheryl_NV on 3/23/05 6:40pm
Msg #27307

I do the same thing, I hope this is correct

Reply by Stephanie on 3/23/05 5:58pm
Msg #27284

Re: Not notarized?...Monica

Which document are you getting the thumbprint for?
and yes, I have the signer sign for every signature I notarize, even if it turns out to be 10 or 12.
I am only following California notary Law.

Stephanie

Reply by missy_socal on 3/23/05 6:05pm
Msg #27285

Re: Not notarized?...Monica

That's the way I always understood we were to keep our journal. The only " " marks I make are for multiple inputs of info (addresses, cdl, etc)
I also have them thumbprint at each signature, even though I understand that it's only required for the one. I was taught that way, and I guess it certainly doesn't hurt!

Reply by SL/CA on 3/23/05 6:53pm
Msg #27314

Re: Not notarized?...Monica

As I know and understand it, it is against the CA law to get a fingerprint for anything that is not the Deed ect...

Reply by missy_socal on 3/23/05 7:06pm
Msg #27316

Re: Not notarized?...Monica

Hmm...that is certainly not how I understood it Obviously, I couldn't make the other notarizations conditional on obtaining that thumbprint. That would be illegal!

Reply by Jon on 3/23/05 7:39pm
Msg #27328

Re: Not notarized?...Monica

SL/CA says:

"As I know and understand it, it is against the CA law to get a fingerprint for anything that is not the Deed ect..."

That is NOT true, there is nothing in Ca code that says it is against the law to get a fingerprint.

Reply by missy_socal on 3/23/05 7:54pm
Msg #27334

Re: Not notarized?...Monica

Thanks, Jon. I double checked my handbook, just for my own peace of mind.

As an aside, I would like to thank you for all of your time on these boards. Your and CaliNotary's posts are the first posts that I read on a topic. I've read and learned a lot over the last few months, but rarely post. I'm sure that there are a lot of lurkers like me, that read and absorb, but rarely comment!

Reply by Cyndra_in_CA on 3/23/05 8:27pm
Msg #27336

Cindy,
I'm relatively new to this field also, but what I do is list every single document requiring a notarized signature in my journal, then, I print and use a diagonal line to for a signature that shows it covers each of those documents described fully. I was taught that that was acceptable in California. I also note that fact in the "other notes/comments" part of my journal.

I also went so far as to print and require a signature for each doc when I started. I was scared to death so I tried to cover all the angles.

I'm a bit nervous for you if you just list something like "loan docs" and that's it! I'm looking forward to reading other replies.

Hope it all works out for you.

Reply by Northern CA signer on 3/24/05 1:15am
Msg #27384

Thank you everyone for your input and wisdom in repsonse to my question. I no longer think I am going crazy since so many of you support my ideas of how I should be recording, namely, a signature for every notarization.

Thanks again.

Reply by John_NorCal on 3/24/05 8:10am
Msg #27409

In the past I have always used one signature line for the docs that needed to be notarized. I do not interpret the law to require a signature in the journal for each notarization. As long as the notarization is at the same time, place, and date for all of the docs, then one signature line, diagonally across your entries should suffice.

As the law states, you need to identify the character of the documents, trust deed, etc. It is not sufficient to just use "loan documents" since not all of the documents in a loan package require notarization.

I think the problem is that many people will read too much into a particular law. In my opinion, for whatever it's worth, if there is nothing that expressly forbids an action, then it is most likely permissible.