Posted by Ted_MI on 3/12/05 9:20pm
Msg #25193

Re: interesting signing situation

I had a HELOC signing this morning with an arabic (I believe Chaldean) couple. By way of background, Chaldeans are Christian Iraquis (sp.?; that just doesn't look right). Not being muslim I don't think they were very well tolerated in Iraq. And so many of them came to the United States in general and the Detroit area in particular over the course of the last number of decades. Well, I am digressing......

Anyway, the husband had told me that his wife had a green card. So I figure that should work. Get there but no signature on the green card. But all is not lost as she has a State of Michigan identification card (that is for those who don't drive), signed and with a pix. So I figure that should work.

Then the first document for her to sign is placed in front of her and she inquires of me whether I want her to sign her name in arabic or in english. My initial reaction is "heh, you should sign it in English". But then I think to myself if she signs it in English and her signature on her driver's license is in arabic, how am I going to compare the two signatures? No way!! So I inquire, and yes her signature on her driver's license was in arabic. So I said OK why don't you sign it in arabic. Now did it bear any resemblance to her name printed beneath the signature line? Nope, but for that matter I have had "native americans" sign their names (in English, mind you) and they don't bear any relationship to their names below the line either.

So although initially illogical, that indeed seemed the best way to go.

Reply by Stephen/VA on 3/12/05 9:33pm
Msg #25198

Re: interesting signing situation

I've wondered about this myself... The whole "sign as written" things seems a bit contrived. As a notary, we need to verify the identity, which should probably involve comparing signatures for a passing resemblance.

However, for the loan documents what if the person's signature is complete gibberish? What if they say "Oh yeah my middle initial is in that pile of chicken scratch right between the two lines and a cross that are my last name 'Witherspoon' and the two circles that are my first name 'George'"

This is more of a signing agent question than a notary question. As far as I can tell as a notary I am verifying the person is the person (to the best of my knowledge) and that they did in fact sign the document and acknowledged or swore to such or both. There aren't any real regulations on the signature itself as far as straight up notary responsibilities go. However, the loans want "As Drafted", but do they really mean "A completely legible and, if neccessary, contrived signature"?

Reply by Ted_MI on 3/12/05 9:46pm
Msg #25201

Re: interesting signing situation

Stephen,

Without responding to your post in detail (as it is late), I think one has to use a bit of common sense.

Oh, I forgot to add that when I asked her to put her initials on the bottom pages of the mortgage, I guess she did do those in English. I mean, you could tell what the intiials were. Maybe that seems a bit inconsistent, but then again I wan't trying to verify who she was either.

Reply by CarolynCO on 3/12/05 10:36pm
Msg #25209

Re: interesting signing situation

A few months ago I had a different situation, although still with signatures. The couple was Spanish speaking -- I don't speak Spanish. SS checked and called back and told me husband did speak and understand English. When I got there, the wife did not sign at all, nor was she listed on the loan docs. Instead the brother of the husband was on the papers and he was present to sign. They both "printed" their names on each doc, as was each drivers license.

I made note of it when I sent the package back. The title company never contacted me, and the SS paid, so I guess it went through with printed signatures.

Reply by Roger/OH on 3/12/05 11:23pm
Msg #25217

Re: interesting signing situation

Most doc packages have a signature/name affidavit that shows the person's legal signature
(even if gibberish) so that it matches the signatures on the docs.

Reply by CarolynCO on 3/12/05 11:41pm
Msg #25220

Re: interesting signing situation

A signature is most always in cursive, and these two brothers printed their name on each doc, including the signature/name affidavit. As I said, I was never called about it and I got paid, so I guess it's a moot point now. Just thought I'd throw it out there.

Reply by BK/FL on 3/13/05 12:40pm
Msg #25263

Re: interesting signing situation

I do several foreign person or immigrant signings and I always look at it as how they sign, whether they print or use cursive or circles and scribbles is their signature. Whether or not I can read it is irrelivant, it is their signature.

My duty is to make sure they are whom they say they are and they understand what they are committing to and I get all the docs executed correctly.

My MIL is from Bangladesh and she prints her signature, as well as my FIL's febble attempt to cursive his! Now try to read any doctors signature and it will be near impossible! BK/FL

Reply by Bobbi in CT on 3/13/05 3:38pm
Msg #25279

Unimaginative reviewers

When I have one that I think an unimaginative reviewer just won't get, I include a note that the signature on the documents matches the signature on the identification documents presented to me as a Notary Public for purposes of identifying the signer(s). I sign in my function as a Notary Public.

I have never had a call or a rejection yet. This includes the unique American doctor or lawyer signature of a squiggle and a scrawl. I like those the best. No middle initial or Jr., Sr. issues. Since you can't recognize even one single letter, there's no way you can say one is missing.

Reply by Ted_MI on 3/14/05 8:06am
Msg #25330

Re: Unimaginative reviewers

Bobbi,

Sounds like a good idea (imcluding the note).