Posted by AJ notary/Ca on 3/4/05 2:34pm
Msg #23659

Saying the Oath

I refi.ed my house 2 years ago, a notary came out to do the closing. She did not administer the oath. I later became a notary, and administer the oath with ever jurat. I refi.ed again this year, the same notary came out. She again did not administer the oath.

I have been doing closings for 9 months, being new I am trying to follow the rule with out error. She is wrong right you have to adiminister oath? Or HONESTLY are there other notaries out there that do not administer the oath, due to not wanting to offened anyone.

I did not tell her I was a notary, I was hoping I would learn something from her.

Reply by Jon on 3/4/05 2:58pm
Msg #23661

In Ca, if you do not administer the oath when required, it is cause for revocation of your commission(GC 8214.1[k]). In addition, you can also be fined $750 by the SOS. Not to mention being liable to any other party to the transaction for all "damages" or "injuries" resulting from your failure to comply with applicable law.

Always administer the oath. If someone gets offended, too bad. I bet the cop that gives you a ticket for speeding doesn't worry about offending you.

Reply by ERNA_CA on 3/4/05 3:20pm
Msg #23669

I allways adminester the oath. I suspect that many dont as I get a surprised responce from borrowers and they tell me they have never done that before. As well as surprise when I tell them I allways compleat the right to cancle in their package. I hear over and over. the last notary did not do either.

Reply by Laura_CA on 3/4/05 5:10pm
Msg #23682

I have never administered the oath on a loan package as an acknowledgment does not require it. A jurat requires the administration of the oath. There are very distinct differences in the wording/use of acknowledgments and jurats. Somehow,, somewhere people are confusing the intended use of jurats/acknowledgments. I have done HUNDREDS of loan doc notarizations... ALL with acknowledgments NONE with jurats. NO OATHS.. save the oaths for affidavits and depositions.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 3/4/05 5:16pm
Msg #23683

What about the sig/name afidavit - that is usually a jurat.

OK - if someone is offended by the oath, then you just have them affirm to the contents instead of swearing to.

Reply by Laura_CA on 3/4/05 5:26pm
Msg #23684

my sig/name affidavit always comes with an acknowledgment, on the same sheet.. or attached. I can see if the lenders would want a jurat used on the name aff, that would be correct form(for california anyway), but to think that a borrower could, or would swear to the truth of the statements included in the entire loan package would be unrealistic.

Reply by CaliNotary on 3/4/05 6:06pm
Msg #23688

You've done hundreds of loan signings and have NEVER had a jurat in any of them? I see jurats all the time. Are you working for only a single lender or something?

Anyway, your message might be a little misleading to newer notaries because many loan packages in California DO contain jurats, therefore DO require the oath.

Reply by Laura_CA on 3/4/05 6:21pm
Msg #23689

Like I said... acks/no oath...jurat/oath, I dont believe my reply was misleading, but informative and correct, and I work for many companies, not just one...I think I CLEARLY stated that "I have never used a jurat with a loan package" not, that they dont come with them, my companies require identification(which is now on the NEW CA JURAT), which was not required on the old jurat. Therefore, not used by the companies I work for.
also.. and this is straight from the notary handbook....."an acceptable oath would be; Do you swear or affirm that the statements in the document are true?", also.."when administering the oath, the signer and notary traditionally raise their right hands, but this is not a legal requirement"...This may help those with the whole"swearing/affirming/God issue"

Reply by Joan Bergstrom on 3/4/05 11:11pm
Msg #23734

I can't make up my mind if this post is done in jest or Laura is just clueless concerning her Calif Notary duty?

If this is truly a legitimate post Laura has forgotten that she is " Calif. Public Servant" and the last thing she should be concerned with is what a company wants her to do concerning the notarial certificate.

If Laura's post was sincere its no wonder all Notaries whose commission are expiring in Calif after July 1st 2005 have to take a 6 hour course before they are allowed to take the Calif. State Notary Exam.

Reply by Laura_CA on 3/4/05 11:52pm
Msg #23739

What exactly is the problelm Joan? I passed my test with flying colors by studying the handbook. My california "duty" is to notarize signatures, and what companies I work for has absolutely nothing to do with it.
I think it is RUDE and HIGH AND MIGHTY to JUDGE my capacities when I am fully aware and operating completely according to the law...oh and about the law,, before you call someone "CLUELESS" on a public forum,, you should be aware also of SLANDER laws, you may want to look that one up.

Reply by PAW_Fl on 3/4/05 6:27pm
Msg #23690

I am surprised at how many documents have the wrong certificate preprinted on the document. When you read the doc, it states pretty clearing, "being duly sworn" or "under oath, deposes and says", and uses the word "affiant" throughout the document. These are indications that the signers must be placed under oath.

Florida has very specific language in the notary laws that directs us to attach a jurat if an acknowledgment is there. From the FL Statutes §117.03 "Administration of oaths - The notary public may not take an acknowledgment of execution in lieu of an oath if an oath is required."

Quite often I have to attach 4 or 5 jurat certificates because the document is an affidavit (disregarding what the title may say) and states that the affiant must be under oath and are swearing to the contents of the document.

This is contradictory to the understanding that notaries cannot select the form of certificate to be used in the sense that the author or custodian has preprinted an acknowledgment, as it is UPL. However, in Florida, we are clearly directed by statute.

Reply by PAW_Fl on 3/4/05 6:38pm
Msg #23692

Sorry for the wrong words and misspellings. I'm on drugs.

Clearing should clearly say clearly.

When I said "disregarding what the title may say", I don't mean the title company, but the title of the document. There are many "affidavits" that really aren't affidavits by the strictest sense of the word. The are more like agreements or disclosures. Affidavit, by definition means a written declaration made under oath before a notary public or other authorized officer. (Ref: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition - Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company and the Merriam-Webster's Dictionary of Law, © 1996 Merriam-Webster, Inc.)

Reply by Jon on 3/4/05 7:20pm
Msg #23701

I also am surprised by the number of incorrect certs printed on the different docs. Unfortunately, Ca does not give the notary the discretion of replacing incorrect certs. We are required to use what they give us.

Reply by christi socal on 3/4/05 10:28pm
Msg #23729

How about saying " by signing this doc you are affirming that this is the truth?"

Reply by LauraR_NY on 3/5/05 11:38am
Msg #23779

The requirements of Notorial Acts ie Acknowledgment/Jurat are outlined in Notary Public Handbook; Principles, Practices & Cases, Alfred E. Piombino as:

(1) Ack = pg 99, The oral declaration of the signer is required; "Do you acknowledge that this is your signature (if signed), and that you freely and willingly signed this document [state type, if known] for the purpose contained in it?"

(2) Oath/Affirmation = starts pg 67, "Do you solemnly swear (or declare and affirm) that the contents of this document are known to you, and that the information is true? So help you God? (or under penalty pf perjury?)"

So as I see it, we administer an oral declaration on both, with signer before us of course.

Reply by Melody on 3/5/05 12:16am
Msg #23743

What's worse is that many loan officers that have sat in on signings were surprised to see me administer the oath.

Many LOs say they have never seen that done before.

This has happened to me in two states.

Yikes!

Reply by ColleenCA on 3/7/05 11:12am
Msg #24099

If the oath offends, then administer the affirmation instead.