Posted by Paul2_FL on 5/16/05 8:12pm
Msg #38176
Abbreviated Notary Signature
I came across this today while doing a "partial" refi signing (the husband completed his part in NY). On the documents requiring notarization, the NY notary only signed using an abbreviated portion of her first name - no last name. However, her full name was printed below the signature line. I'm assuming this is OK because this may be her "official" signature but it sure looked starnge. I couldn't find anything in the FL Reference Manual to say this is wrong but I was taught to always sign your name exactly as it is printed on your Notary Certificate. Any thoughts anyone???
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Reply by Sylvia_FL on 5/16/05 9:29pm
Msg #38185
Florida notary laws say we must sign our "official signature", which would be the one that is on file in the SOS office.
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Reply by Paul2_FL on 5/16/05 9:44pm
Msg #38188
Thanks Sylvia,
Well, assuming NY notary law is the same, I would doubt that she is following it unless she officially changed her name to shorten it. (She had a long first and last name and probably got tired of signing her full name). Whatever...
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Reply by CaliNotary on 5/16/05 11:30pm
Msg #38239
I distinctly remember that when I took the notary test we were told that however we signed the notary application was the signature we were to use when notarizing. My commission has my first, middle and last name (and how I regret including my middle name, won't make that mistake again when I renew) yet my signature is just my first initial and last name, and even that is pretty scrawly. That's the signature I use when notarizing and it's never been an issue.
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Reply by Sam I am CA on 5/17/05 9:49am
Msg #38277
***I distinctly remember that when I took the notary test we were told that however we signed the notary application was the signature we were to use when notarizing.***
Same speech given in San Diego. The proctor took one look at my signature and changed my notary application. I'm so glad that I can use my initials and last name when filling out all these SS applications - let alone on the actual loan docs.
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Reply by BrendaTx on 5/16/05 9:52pm
Msg #38190
More Notary Ignorance....
- - - - - - - Abbrev. Name- - - - - - -
I am seeing a lot of this in Texas as well. For instance, the notary's name may be Mary Bea Smith and she is signing M Smith. The signature is supposed to match the stamp.
- - - - - - - No Certificate- - - - - - -
Today, a notary from N. Texas faxed me evidence of notary ignorance. Nothing to do with loan signing. It was a statement something like this:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Title of Document
My name is John Adams. My father is Jack Adams.
He owns....Yada yada...blah blah, yada yada.
______________________
John Adams
My name is Jack Adams. My son is John Adams.
I own ____. Yada yada...blah blah, yada yada.
______________________
Jack Adams
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Suffice it to say the information I have stated above does not go into the real context of the document, but the info in it was pretty important--not relevant here.
This notary was a really great example of why eventually something will have to be done in Texas to stop lazy people from getting a notary commission. Up by John Adams signature, there was a notary seal. And, out to the side of the notary seal there was a signature with the notary's name printed out to the right of it.
No certficate, no date, no venue...nada. Too much trouble to read the notary rules that come with the notary's commission. This is pure laziness. Ignorance is no crime, but being lazy and ignorant about one's notary commission actually is when it is put into action.
The N Tx Notary who faxed it to me asked me what I thought he should do. I gave him my answer but no point in going into all that. It's ridiculous how many people are using their stamp without a clue of why they are doing it, other than to "fancy up" a document.
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Reply by BrendaTx on 5/16/05 10:12pm
Msg #38201
Re: More Notary Ignorance....Correction
- - - - - - - Abbrev. Name- - - - - - -
I am seeing a lot of this in Texas as well. For instance, the notary's name may be Mary Bea Smith and she is signing M Smith. The signature is supposed to match the stamp.
NOTE: I SHOULD HAVE SAID 'IN TEXAS' the signature is supposed to match the stamp.
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Reply by Ernest_CT on 5/16/05 10:15pm
Msg #38205
I can't imaging a state where it wouldn't! n/m
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Reply by Ernest_CT on 5/16/05 10:15pm
Msg #38203
The notary's signature MUST match ...
... their commission! And, if they have a stamp / seal / embosser, the names must ALL match the commission. Period. Anything else is wrong!
Why, oh why, can't people who get commissioned follow even the most simple rules?r God knows what else they're doing! On Saturday I had a borrower tell me that the notary who did their previous closing had told them "Oh, don't worry about the witness signature. I'll have my wife sign it when I get home." Aaarrrggghhh!
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Reply by Glena/NV on 5/16/05 10:22pm
Msg #38209
This one's even worse....
I had a refi and GAC sent me a notary who told me to forge my husband's signature. He said my husband does not have to be there...I could sign for him. I asked him, "And you are a Notary?" To which he replied, "Oh, don't tell me that you have never asked any of your signers to do the same?" Sad to say, he is being investigated by the Nevada SOS right now. Not only did he not know how to notarize some of the certificates, he did not have a journal (a Nevada requirement), did not put us under oath, and he also did not ask for our ID. I am worried that he is not legit.
One thing that bothered me so much, was the fact that he was making racist remarks against the whites...I am married to one, who was signing in front of him at that time. I reported him to GAC and they will no longer use him, nor will Lenders First Choice. VERY UNPROFESSIONAL!
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Reply by Sylvia_FL on 5/16/05 10:41pm
Msg #38218
How about this one!
Had a signing company contact me today to ask me a question on Florida notary law.
A notary they were using told them that if a document did not have the word "Seal" on it, then she could not notarize it! I think the signing company said she had been a notary for 10 years, and has never notarized a document if it did not have the word "seal" on it.
I usually hate it when they put the word "seal" on the documents, and our seal cannot cover up any words! They don't always leave enough room to put the seal.
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Reply by MIssyNV on 5/16/05 10:59pm
Msg #38224
Glena--WOW
Glena, that is scary.
If you want to change your signiture, all (I think) you do is go down to the SoS office and sign a new card for them, and then change your stamp. I think it is a lot like changing your name if you get married.
I just remember them questioning and warning about this when I wanted to put my middle initial in my signature. She said people get tired of it when doing long docs. I have always put my middle initial in my signature.
Never signed Melissa without the M.
and never signed Missy to more than a note.
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Reply by Shannon/Va on 5/16/05 11:03pm
Msg #38226
Re: Glena--WOW
Here in Virginia, the only way I know to not sign your name to match your stamp is for women who get married and change their name. Your seal/stamp says Mary E Smith and you sign Mary E Jones and below your signature you write in 'Commissioned as Mary E Smith'. Once it is time to renew your notary, then change your name to be correct and get a new stamp.
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Reply by Katie/CA on 5/16/05 11:31pm
Msg #38240
Re: How about this one!
Thanks for the laugh. That was cute! Dumb, but cute!
I agree, I hate that word seal.
We can't stamp on printed type in CA, so have to make sure there is space enough for the stamp. Many times have to use an All purpose because of this.
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Reply by BrendaTx on 5/16/05 11:06pm
Msg #38227
Re: This one's even worse....
This encourages me to start blowing some whistles here in Texas. The other night I got a package from and realized it was a HELOC. No can do w/o a lawyer or title co office. Called lender and passed it back to lender. Gave lender a lawyer's name.
About two hrs later, bwrs call me and say, "the lawyer was supposed to be here an hour ago." Of course that was not my problem, but the fact that the lawyer was going to their house is a no no. LOCATION is the problem.
It makes a great deal of diff under Tx law WHERE the Heloc is closed...not who closes the loan...be it notary or be it lawyer/notary.
Actually, there's some verbiage somewhere in most HELOCs that the loan MAY be voided if the loan was not closed in a title co, lender branch or title co. I have tried to put this out of my mind...but maybe I better call lender.
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Reply by Shannon/Va on 5/16/05 11:10pm
Msg #38228
Re: This one's even worse....
That's interesting Branda. Here in Va, a notary can close them. Not just an attorney. Or should I say, an attorney does not HAVE TO BE the one doing the closings.
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Reply by Sylvia_FL on 5/16/05 11:15pm
Msg #38233
Re: This one's even worse....
Several states are attorney only, where a notary may not do the signings, it has to be an attorney.
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Reply by BrendaTx on 5/16/05 11:21pm
Msg #38235
Shannon...Notary can close, but
Helocs must be closed in a title co, lender branch or attorney's office...
These days closing rooms are rented for $25/hr in Texas title companies until you'd think it was the local No-Tell Motel.
I guess that's why it is difficult to get the title company to let me close loans there...always booked...too many people trying to use it...after all, it is cheaper than the No-Tell.
(Yeah...I know the joke about the sr. citizens who met at the doctor's office every week.)
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Reply by Ernest_CT on 5/16/05 11:24pm
Msg #38237
OK, Brenda. Not all of us know about the Sr. Cits. Tell? n/m
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Reply by BrendaTx on 5/16/05 11:38pm
Msg #38243
Re: OK, Brenda. Not all of us know about the Sr. Cits. Tell? n/m
Two married senior citizens were having an affair.
Someone else can tell it...
...but it has to do with getting a break via Medicare for what they were doing at the doc's office each Tuesday --while cheating on their respective spouses. It's really a funny little joke but someone else should tell it...WHERE'S DOGMONGER or HUGH when you need 'em.
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Reply by Sylvia_FL on 5/16/05 11:53pm
Msg #38248
OK - here it is
A couple, age 67, went to the doctor's office. The doctor asked, "What can
I do for you?"
The man said, "Will you watch us have sexual intercourse?"
The doctor looked puzzled, but agreed. When the couple finished, the doctor
said, "There is nothing wrong with the way you have intercourse." And he
then charged them $32.00.
This happened several weeks in a row. The couple would make an appointment,
have intercourse, pay the doctor and leave.
Finally the doctor asked, "Just what exactly are you trying to find out?"
The old man said, "We're not trying to find out anything. She is married
and we can't go to her house. I am married and we can't go to my house.
The Holiday Inn charges $60.00 and the Hilton charges $75.00. We do it here
for $32.00, and I get back $28.00 from Medicare for a visit to the doctor's
office."
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Reply by BrendaTx on 5/17/05 10:03am
Msg #38278
So...this perhaps tells why I cannot do courtesy closings?
So...this perhaps tells why I cannot do courtesy closings?
The local title companies say they are busy or do not allow anyone to do this anymore.
Too many people trying to use the title company for 25.00 for 1/2 an hour???
-----------
Thank you, Sylvia, for telling this. I got a big belly laugh - AGAIN!
I laugh my head off every darn time I read/hear it. This one and the story about the monkeys. I used to tell this one to my kids and they always laughed.
~~~~~
Tom came upon a big truck broken down on the side of the road. A dozen monkeys were crawling around in a cage in back. Tom pulled over and asked the truck driver if he could help. The truck driver said "I have called AAA to come help with the truck. However, I have promised to get these monkeys to the circus show in town this morning.
If you could take the monkeys on to the circus for me, I would really appreciate it."
Tom said, "No problem!"
He loaded all the monkeys into his Suburban and took off to town.
About three hours later, Tom returned to the scene where he had found the broken-down truck. The truck was still there, and, so was an impatient and weary driver--AAA had not yet shown up.
Furthermore, much to the disappointment to the truck driver, all the monkeys were still in Tom's Suburban, but now they were ALL wearing sunglasses.
The truck driver said to Tom, "What they hey, man!?!?! You were supposed to take those monkeys to the circus!"
Tom said, "I did! Shoot fire, we had such a good time, now we are going to the beach!!"
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Reply by Ernest_CT on 5/17/05 10:40am
Msg #38296
Thanks for the laugh, Brenda!
Now quit monkeying around or you'll make us go ape. Or something simian.
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Reply by BrendaTx on 5/16/05 11:10pm
Msg #38229
Shd be law office, title co or lender branch for Helocs nm
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Reply by Shannon/Va on 5/16/05 11:12pm
Msg #38230
Re: Shd be law office, title co or lender branch for Helocs nm
I have had the lender tell me I can not close in the borrower home. Must be in a neutral location or the loan would be voided. I have done them in Starbucks, Barnes & Noble and a library too. I think that is strange.
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Reply by BrendaTx on 5/16/05 11:33pm
Msg #38241
Texas Constitution spells it out.
A notary is okay, but it is the >>>location <<<which is specific.
The Tx Constitution states the site of the loan signing with home eq. loans must be a lender branch, law office, or a title company.
The following notice has to appear in the documents.
“NOTICE CONCERNING EXTENSIONS OF CREDIT DEFINED BY SECTION 50(a)(6), ARTICLE XVI, TEXAS CONSTITUTION:
“SECTION 50(a)(6), ARTICLE XVI, OF THE TEXAS CONSTITUTION ALLOWS CERTAIN LOANS TO BE SECURED AGAINST THE EQUITY IN YOUR HOME. SUCH LOANS ARE COMMONLY KNOWN AS EQUITY LOANS. IF YOU DO NOT REPAY THE LOAN OR IF YOU FAIL TO MEET THE TERMS OF THE LOAN, THE LENDER MAY FORECLOSE AND SELL YOUR HOME. THE CONSTITUTION PROVIDES THAT: “
(N) THE LOAN MAY CLOSE ONLY AT THE OFFICE OF THE LENDER, TITLE COMPANY, OR AN ATTORNEY AT LAW;
http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/txconst/sections/cn001600-005000.html
There is also language which states that a contract regarding this must also happen at those locations list in N. above. For more info....Read the Tx Const. at the above link.
Disclaimer: I am probably lying, hallucinating or worse...so don't believe anything I just said. In other words, no UPL here folks.
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Reply by PAW_Fl on 5/17/05 6:55am
Msg #38265
Paul, et al FL notaries:
Page 10 of the Governor's Manual (2001 edition) states:
"You must sign notarial certificates in your commissioned name, and your notary seal
must bear that name. No variation from the commissioned name is permitted."
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Reply by Paul2_FL on 5/17/05 9:36am
Msg #38276
Hi Paul,
Good to hear from you! I checked my copy of the Gov's Reference Manual (updated 2001) but couldn't find where it states:
"You must sign notarial certificates in your commissioned name, and your notary seal
must bear that name. No variation from the commissioned name is permitted."
I then went online to check to see if I had the latest copy but what I found was the same as what I have. This Manual is located at:
http://www.myflorida.com/myflorida/government/governorinitiatives/notary/reference.html
Is there another Manual out there that I should be using?
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Reply by Sylvia_FL on 5/17/05 10:32am
Msg #38291
Re: Abbreviated Notary Signature - Paul2
If you look at the pages 1-10, and the 6th page, it states:
Qualifications and Requirements for Appointment
You may only be commissioned in your legal name (or a nickname of your legal name).
Example: John Quinton Public could be commissioned in the names:
John Quinton Public
John Q. Public
J. Quinton Public
J. Q. Public
Johnny Public
You must sign notarial certificates in your commissioned name, and your notary seal
must bear that name. No variation from the commissioned name is permitted.
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Reply by Paul2_FL on 5/17/05 10:46am
Msg #38301
Re: Abbreviated Notary Signature - Paul2
Thanks Sylvia!
Gawd! I can't believe I missed that when I was double-checking this issue. Right under General Information! Time to get my eyes/glasses checked!
Based on this, I believe the Notary in NY is not in compliance with Notary Law assuming of course NY has the same qualifications and requirements.
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Reply by Sylvia_FL on 5/17/05 6:44pm
Msg #38470
Re: Abbreviated Notary Signature - Paul2
The NY notary would have an official signature on file, and if a certificate ever needed authenticating the signature of the notary on the certificate would have to match the official signature on file.
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Reply by PAW_Fl on 5/17/05 10:55am
Msg #38307
It's actually page 6 of the manual, but page 10 in the consolidated (instead of 11 PDF files, it's combined all into one) Florida Manual which you can download from my website (http://pawnotary.com/FloridaRoom/Florida_Manual.pdf).
Sorry about the page number screw-up.
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Reply by Paul2_FL on 5/17/05 11:01am
Msg #38310
Thanks Paul,
No problem with the page mix-up. It actually helped me because it forced me to re-read some other stuff!
I'll download the combined Manual from your web-site. Thanks again!
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Reply by Paul2_FL on 5/17/05 11:20am
Msg #38320
Hi Paul,
I checked the Manual on your web-site and it's the same one I downloaded from the Gov's Office website some time ago. I wish I had known you had this combined one available - it would have saved me some time!
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Reply by Stephanie_CA on 5/17/05 2:04pm
Msg #38373
My understanding that we are to sign the way we fill out the Notary application is the way we are to sign. I believe we are to sign exactly as our name appears on our seal/stamp.
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