Posted by AngelinaAZ on 5/21/05 2:46pm
Msg #39526
Does this seem odd to anyone?
I have had several signings recently in the same city, very similar re-fi's, very OLD buyers. The people are competent but very old and very slow. (Each signing takes at least 2 hours and they aren't problematic signers- just slow). One lady was signing and talk talk talking away about everything under the sun and then said... I have calls so often about refinancing... I never even talk to them but this gentleman was soooo nice, and he really did his homework... he knew all about me, all about my financial situation, how much my debts were and he even said... "Don't you want to consolidate your $500 van payment- it's at 10% you know- into a lower interest house payment. He knew all my information already, I didn't need to sit on the phone with him or fill out a bunch of stuff or anything, he had all the information already, it was so easy." I was hired by the title company who is under the same ownership as the lender - both are very new. It felt a little odd. Is that kind of information so easy to come by without the person's prior consent? They have all been widows or widowers - I just realized, not that it should matter. The 'nice gentleman' at the lender always calls about 45 minutes into the signing to make sure that there are not problems. Is it good customer service, double checking on the notary? They always say... 'Oh yes, don't worry I'm signing right now.' Maybe I'm just a cynic.
| Reply by AngelinaAZ on 5/21/05 2:54pm
Msg #39528
Loans were all ARM's with balloon payments n/m
| Reply by ERNA_CA on 5/21/05 3:58pm
Msg #39533
Re: Loans were all ARM's with balloon payments n/m
That seems odd indeed. Seems like they are getting a list of senior citizens wich includes all their financal and personal information. Hope tha balloon payment dosnt loose them the house.
| Reply by SarahBeth_CA on 5/21/05 6:13pm
Msg #39548
Re: Loans were all ARM's with balloon payments n/m
Odd indeed. I am skeptical about anyone calling me. Which in fact I do get about 3 calls a week that are recordings for refi's. I sure wouldn't want anyone calling my grandparents either. Were these people aware that the loans were ARM's with balloon payments? Did they show willingness and comprehension? I know we can't get in to the loan terms and I wouldn't. But that just scares me.
| Reply by AngelinaAZ on 5/21/05 7:44pm
Msg #39555
Yes they showed willingness
As far as comprehension goes... it is a tricky spot. None of them seemed stupid or coerced or unable to comprehend... but two of them just passed right by the TIL just signing away and another stopped and looked quizzically at the amounts and said... 'my payments are going from $665 to $1200 in five years?"... nothing about the balloon payment. I said to her, 'Would you like to contact the lender and verify that this is correct or get an explanation of the payments?' she just shook her head, signed it and said... 'no no he explained it to me, I remember now.' I even went so far as to ask, 'Do you understand this balloon payment?' She said 'yep' and kept going. In Arizona there are no statuatory guidelines regarding the 'repercussions of the document' but I am allowed to ask them to explain it to me. I guess I'll do that from now on. Even if they understand it, it seems as though they are being targeted. Question... Are the lenders and title companies allowed to be affiliated... I just always thought they were supposed to be separate (kind of like a check and balance system).
| Reply by ERNA_CA on 5/21/05 8:18pm
Msg #39557
Re: Good Question
Praying on the old is not new, it happens all the time. Would be interesting to know if the lender and title are allowed to be affiliated. I should think not , but have no idea. Brakes your heart to think people would go after old folks to try and take away everything they worked for. My daughter works for a escrow title company. They actually reported a predatory lender ones for ripping off an old gentleman.
| Reply by Lee/AR on 5/21/05 9:00pm
Msg #39558
Re: Good Question
It smells bad...
| Reply by Nancy in Florida on 5/21/05 10:01pm
Msg #39560
Re: Good Question
It sure does smell bad. I am originally from NY and in NY there are very strick laws regarding lending. However when I moved to Florida I could not believe what actually went on down here. I worked for a Title company very briefly and the title co's best client was a local builder and they owned a mortgage broker business. I couldn't believe one closing that I had, they were charging the borrower's $18K in closing cost and this was a purchase and they were not paying off any debt. They were elderly and really didn't want this loan when they saw the closing costs and no one told them the rate, the fact it was an ARM, nothing. They were stuck, the were homeless and their furniture was on a moving truck in from of the new house. The female borrower sat there and cried as she signed the docs, it took two hours. When I told my boss about it she said that it was not our problem I also questioned her because there were alot of upfront disclosures that the borrowers were seeing for the first time at closing. (The docs were back dated to the application date) She told me not to worry about that and I am to never question this builder. I quit the next day, It just smelled fraudulent and I can be a party to that.
In Florida and Insurance agent can be a mortgage broker, a real estate co can own a title co, & mortgage broker business. Many are set up for one stop shopping but where are the checks and balances for the borrower? In NY it is the norm for a borrower to have an attorney represent them on a purchase that does not happen much in Florida. It is really buyer beware.
| Reply by Laura_nh on 5/22/05 12:09am
Msg #39568
Re: Good Question
So, what do we as signing agents do in this situation? do we walk away from the table, not having the docs signed and tell the mortgage co to find another notary ? do we do what we are hired to do, have the docs signed even though we have a bad feeling about the whole situation?
| Reply by AngelinaAZ on 5/22/05 1:02am
Msg #39570
Re: So what do we as signing agents do?
That is the dilemma that I am in. I feel like if I could just ask a few questions about their knowledge, their current situation, and the reason they chose (or settled) on these loans, I might get a little insight that would either make me go... no way am I going to be the signing agent for these loans (and in fact, watch out because I am going to report you) or... OK, well maybe this isn't the greatest loan but their old one was worse... they are lowering their payments for the last years of their life and they have nobody to leave their home to anyway.. or something. One part of me says... hey it's $140 and if I don't do it, the next guy will. I mean we all know that there is somebody waiting for every job you turn down... or else how do these crappy signing agencies that have been on the no no list forever still stay in business. The other part of me says that I need more information. I won't be party to a scam on old folks and I won't pass up the business and look the other way either. So I have decided that I am going on an information hunt. I want to find out if Lenders and Title Co.s in Arizona are allowed to be affiliated. I want to find out if there is a rating for lenders (kind of like an A for a restaurant or FDIC for banks). I want to find out if the information that is being collected on these folks is legally accessable without consent. I like these people... and when I say to the old man whose hands are shaking and swollen with arthritis to take a break, its OK, we've got as much time as he needs, I want it to be real and not because I'm secretly wishing that his hand would freeze up and he can't complete the signing.
| Reply by ERNA_CA on 5/22/05 10:32am
Msg #39582
Re: So what do we as signing agents do?
One of the rules we are to follow is, refuse or report if something looks fraudulent. This kind of smells like one of those situation. don't you think? This brakes my heart.
| Reply by PAW_Fl on 5/22/05 6:38am
Msg #39576
Re: Good Question
Unfortunately, it can happen, almost anywhere, but is easier than most to facilitate a "bad" loan in Florida. One of the disclosures that MUST be presented to the borrowers before getting too far into the process is the broker's contract. In that contract should be a statement that the borrowers/buyers have a right to have an attorney represent them. And there are lots of RE attorneys in Florida. As a signing agent, during my opening spiel, I tell the borrowers/buyers and sellers if I'm doing a purchase, that they have the right to have an attorney perform the closing and/or represent them during the closing. If they want one, I stop right then and there and don't go any further. In the almost four years I've been doing this full time, I've only had one (1) borrower stop the proceedings and state they wanted an attorney to represent them as they didn't understand the terms and conditions and their broker wasn't helping them. I had no alternative but to stop, call title and inform them, pack up and go home.
As for the insurance deal in FL, there is a Florida mandated form "Insurance Anti-Coercion Statement" that the borrowers must complete filling in their insurance agency or company and sign it.
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