Posted by missymrtn_socal on 5/17/05 6:55pm
Msg #38475

Gov't form requesting race/sex/etc

I did a refi recently, and came across a form requesting the borrower to fill out their race, sex, etc. There was a section addressing the notary where it stated that the borrower has the right to refuse to furnish this information.
However, if they do so, then *I* need to fill it out as best I can by looking at them, and ascertaining their race and then check the appropriate boxes.

This is the first time that I've seen this form, and my first thought was....how awkward!

Reply by ColleenCA on 5/17/05 7:00pm
Msg #38477

Wow, I would think it would be illegal for them to ask you to fill it out if the borrower states that they do not want the information furnished to the lender. Besides, how can you tell someone's race just by looking at them?

Reply by PAW_Fl on 5/17/05 7:04pm
Msg #38480

That information is on every 1003 in use. It's also on every FHA and VA loan application. It is required by the gov't to be completed by the borrower, or the person who assists in the completion of the application. It is used to ensure the fair lending laws are adhered to by analyzing the demographics generated by the responses. It is best that the borrower complete them or the wrong boxes may be checked based on misleading information (like the surname being mistaken as Asian instead of European, or sex based on the first name) or just plain guessing.

From the FannieMae website on how to complete a 1003:

Information for Government Monitoring Purposes
This section is included to aid the federal government in monitoring compliance with the Equal Credit Opportunity Act. Since supplying this information is strictly voluntary, an applicant who does not wish to do so should check the box provided to indicate his or her decision. If an applicant does not provide this information, federal regulations require the lender to note the applicant's sex, ethnicity, and race on the form, based on the lender's visual observation or the applicant's surname.

Reply by Lisa/WI on 5/17/05 7:12pm
Msg #38483

So does Missy have to fill this out if it is to be filled out by the lender? What if she refuses on the basis she is an impartial witness to this loan document signing?

Reply by PAW_Fl on 5/17/05 7:27pm
Msg #38484

Take your notary hat off. Put on your Signing Agent hat. You are the eyes and ears of the closing agent charged with the up close and personal part of the paperwork. If you have the directive to complete the demographics, then that's what should be done. If the borrowers don't want to do it, and the Signing Agent doesn't do it, then the loan officer or closing agent must, but law, complete it, and probably will do it incorrectly. Therefore, the betterment of the entire process, it is best to have the information to be reliable and accurate as best it can be.

Besides, being an impartial witness has nothing to do with completing a demographic survey. It's not showing partiality in any way, shape or form.

Reply by ERNA_CA on 5/17/05 7:40pm
Msg #38487

Reminds me of the first time I went to the dentist in this country and was asked on a form about my ethnicity. Couldn't see how it had anything to do with ones teeth. Had no idea i belonged to a group called co cation. The dental assistance looked at me like I was crazy not knowing that, I informed her I had been to the dentist in other countries and it had never mattered about my race or color and i had never been referred to as co cation in my entire life. I think they take this grouping of people way over the line. Just keeps reinforcing in everyones minds that we look different, cant help much in the fight agings racism. Just my two cents.

Reply by BrendaTX on 5/17/05 7:49pm
Msg #38489

It is my understanding that this process is to insure fairness across the board and that no prejudice or predatory lending takes place.

Reply by ERNA_CA on 5/17/05 8:01pm
Msg #38491

I don't think the lenders care what ethnicity one is but rather can one qualify for a loan. Only when you come from the outside do you notice that grouping people is practiced at every turn. Cant see how it helps anything. Are you male or female a US citizen or not should be sufficient.

Reply by Sam I am CA on 5/17/05 8:43pm
Msg #38495

Erna - you're Caucasian. What happened to your spell checker?

FYI - the reason the Dr./dentist asks about ethnicity is because some diseases are particular to specific races of people.

Reply by ERNA_CA on 5/18/05 1:12am
Msg #38558

hahaha I used it it dosnt know what caucasian is.

Reply by missymrtn_socal on 5/17/05 7:53pm
Msg #38490

Oh, the signing was already completed and the docs dropped. I was just commenting, because I hadn't run across this form before. The borrower had no problem with filling it out, though.

I just thought that this form could potentially create some really awkward moments!

The borrower refuses to fill out information. I then slide the paper back over to me. "Hmm...you look Hispanic to *me*". Ack!

Paw- Thanks for the information. Helpful, as always!

~Melissa

Reply by Nancy in Florida on 5/17/05 11:07pm
Msg #38525

In this day and age of technology and on-line lenders and such the Loan Officer usually does not meet with the borrowers in person everything is either done over the phone, mail and internet. Therefore the Notary Sigining Agent is probably the only person who actually meets the borrower's face to face. Who better to complete this form acurately if the borrower refuses to complete it.

The lenders only care if someone qualifies for a loan, it is the Federal Government that requires the lender to obtain this information and it is used to monitor fair lending practices.

Reply by BrendaTX on 5/17/05 11:22pm
Msg #38530

I must get the best bwrs in the world.

When it came to that form on a loan I did for a black couple, the wife was trying to get the apptment over with and rushing her husband. He was a real cut up. She said "check here"--indicating the box.

He said, "Do what???? Woman!! What is wrong with you? Don't tell this lady I'm black!"

She just laughed at him and they acted like they just got married yesterday...and the grandkids were running in and out of the room...been married for about 35 years. I hope I get to see them again some time.

Reply by christi/socal on 5/18/05 1:10am
Msg #38557

I think lenders only care if borrowers are "green" enough!!!

Reply by ERNA_CA on 5/18/05 1:15am
Msg #38559

Well I had one that checked sevral boxes. He saied well im a little bit of everything. Wonder what they will do with that one