Posted by SigningZ.com on 5/17/05 1:00pm
Msg #38346

Looking for Notaries who use ENJOA

We are rolling out a strategic partnership with a major title company and looking for notaries who use the ENJOA system.
Please email [e-mail address] and let us know who you are. We are looking at over 500 signings a month nationwide.

Thanks, as always for your support. We are still the fastest paying compny in the US!

Happy to do it!

Reply by SamIam_CA on 5/17/05 1:12pm
Msg #38350

I am under the impression that ENJOA is an Electronic Journal of Official (notary) Acts. Why would a signing company or title company care how the notary's journal is kept?
Sam

P.s. also e-mailed in case they don't check back on the board...

Reply by SamIam_CA on 5/17/05 1:17pm
Msg #38352

Re: Looking for Notaries - their reply

"We are doing electronic signings for a paperless company."

I have no idea how that works. Anyone care to educate?

Reply by ColleenCA on 5/17/05 1:29pm
Msg #38355

Re: Looking for Notaries - their reply

Enjoa is indeed a software program that replaces the "paper" journal. The borrower can sign electronically, enter their thumbprint and a photo is taken. As I understand it, any documents which are to be notarized can be done with Enjoa thus the paperless transactions. Also, the only way to access the program is with the notary thumbprint, so it is supposed to make the journal more secure. You would have to have a laptop if going to the customer, or if the customer comes to you it can be installed on your pc. It seems to be the wave of the future for notaries.

Reply by PAW_Fl on 5/17/05 1:45pm
Msg #38359

Re: Looking for Notaries - their reply

>>> As I understand it, any documents which are to be notarized can be done with Enjoa thus the paperless transactions. <<<

I don't see that as reality. How would Deeds and mortgages get recorded if the clerk's office can't get the instruments? Even though FL has had electronic notarizations on the books for almost 10 years, I don't see anything in the way of implementing them at the government level on a widespread basis. The first fully paperless mortgage loan and home purchase was completed in Florida. The entire procedure was originated, underwritten, processed, approved, and recorded electronically. So it can be done, however, it the means to do it effectively and efficiently don't seem to be in place today.

We went through this scenario a few years back with ARCANVS. Some NSA's bought into the expensive equipment (at that time) only to have it fall flat on its electronic face. Until there is an accepted standard for performing electronic notarizations, bought into by Entrust, Thawte, Verisign and others, it could be a nightmare on the same scale as all the different ways to print loan documents. I wouldn't dream of expecting the notaries of the country to have to buy certificates from each of the different vendors "just in case". Lenders, title companies, and recorders need to settle on one standard that everyone can follow and use. And make it affordable for the NSA.

Reply by SamIam_CA on 5/17/05 1:49pm
Msg #38361

Re: Looking for Notaries - their reply

***How would Deeds and mortgages get recorded ?*** Great question! I will e-mail them again and let you know their response.

Reply by SigningZ.com on 5/17/05 2:04pm
Msg #38374

Re: Looking for Notaries - their reply

As we get closer to the controlled roll out date we will publish the entire situation, we are currently inundated with emails now with questions like this and will address all of them as time allows.

We appreciate the interest.

If you are able to do electronic signings please let us know as we are updating the data base first. You can do that by emailing [e-mail address]

One thing we will be have to do for now is prioritize those who work with us, as far as getting to the questions. In the meanwhile, we are certain there are plenty of notaries on these boards who can answer the quesions you have regarding e-signings.

Again we appreciate the interest and must say, we had no idea that it would generate so much response. bear with us. We are starting by updatig the database and have some operational issues to address, as you can well imagine, before we begin calling on the 400 to 500 signing we will be excitedly hiring for.

Thanks for you patience and your interest.

Reply by SamIam_CA on 5/17/05 1:46pm
Msg #38360

Re: Looking for Notaries - their reply

To make sure I understand...
The notary downloads the documents and then you use the ENJOA software for them to 'sign' the documents, as well as the electronic journal?

Reply by Gerry_VT on 5/17/05 3:04pm
Msg #38416

Re: Looking for Notaries - their reply

From what I've read, the borrower signs with a special pen that records some information about the pen movements. Then the notary digitally signs the whole document, including the borrower's signature and the acknowledgement certificate (of course the notary is only signing in the capacity of a notary). Then nothing in the document can be altered without invalidating the notary's digital signature.

What I don't like about the system is it is impossible for the borrower to sign with a digital signature, only with a pen.

Reply by PAW_Fl on 5/17/05 3:25pm
Msg #38427

Re: Looking for Notaries - their reply

>>> What I don't like about the system is it is impossible for the borrower to sign with a digital signature, only with a pen. <<<

What about all the other "special" situations? Like, signing with a POA, or as Trustee, or with a mark (X) or with a signature facsimile stamp? All these conditions must be taken into consideration when doing electronic notarizations. Just like there is at least one exception to every rule, there will be exceptions to electronic notarizations.

How will modifications and annotations to notary certificates be accomplished? It's going to be pretty difficult to attach a loose certificate to an electronic file or change the wording in an existing certificate to meet state requirements.

I'm all for technology, but there are some things that are better left alone because there are just too many variables, nuances and differences in the way things are done. Technology can only follow standardization. Standardization has to be universally accepted to be functional. Can all the different notary laws be standardized? (I don't want to say federalized, but each state would have to buy into a standard.)

Reply by Bobbi in CT on 5/17/05 5:49pm
Msg #38454

169 CT Town Clerks can't accept Erecordings ...

It will come in CA. When - I don't know. NNA sells ENJOA and software and is negotiating deals with lenders and title companies to be able have compatible software and secure Inet to transmit documents.

PAW, I have seen numerous demos. The NSA has laptop with ENJOA software, signature & thumbprint pad & pen, camera for photo. NSA keys in identification info into Journal, takes thumbprint. Then logs out of ENJOA into lender/title propriatary software and pulls each loan document on screen, when get to signature lines, borrower signs on pad w/ pen, when gets to notarization block, NSA completes and signs. When all signed, entire loan document package is Esent back to lender/title. Title then Esends mortgage deed for recording ... or in states that consider a hard copy of an electronic document as a recordable original, prints a hard copy and mails to recording clerk.

No expert and since I am in a state where it ain't likely to happen fast, my interest is just too much curiosity. I, too, got bit by NNA pushing Arcanvs and Enotarizations - lost money on that one. Issues: Carry your printer so you can print out borrower's copy at their home. Elderly borrower (and me with not-so-great eyesight) may want NSA to print out a full set so that they can read it on paper rather than PC screen (expensive laptop so that can have large screen and ability for borrowers to sit and read through your laptop ... oops, sorry, I touched some keys, what happened to your computer?), have to have ability to handle many different types of software ... unless every lender and title company agrees to use the same (HA!!! They can't even agree on using the same paper forms). A CT issue was how to get $$ for recordings, now filings are paid up front with check or cash (great for town cash flow) - no credit card payments & fees. One GREAT Idea was a law firm would open an account with each of the 169 Towns, put about $250 in the account, and then Town would take out money as Efiling came in. Hmmmm ... who's got that extra cash to tie up w/out earning interest and who at the town is going to keep track of all that $$ and each individual account? An issues lawyers still arguing over how to handle: CT is a first in time, first in line state. When there's an attorney standing at the counter with a Judgment Lien from Creditor #2 and an Efiled Judgment Lien from Creditor #4 just came into the PC, who's first?

As I posted before, Elected official comes to you asking for your vote and says you should vote for him/her because "I cut funding for education, health care, highway repairs, and public services. I raised your taxes to pay for equipment, software, hire IT staff, pay licensing fees for Efiling of recorded documents. Although I CUT services to benefit you. Your banker and lawyer can save money because they wont have to drive to the Town Clerk's office to record your mortgage." I worked for bankers, worked for attorneys - I ain't agreeing to have my taxes raised for their convenience and to reduce their costs. All I see are lots of new bank fees and lower interest rates on my money. Further, anyone remember the last time a lender or attorney LOWERED their fee to you because they cut costs. It will just go to increasing their net profit.

States that have County Recorders and money in the budget will be on board for Efiling. It's very common now in commerical UCC filing, incorporations, etc. This is because this is a profitable area for Secy of State's offices and most documents are 1 page.

Reply by Teasa/NY on 5/17/05 6:05pm
Msg #38458

Re: 169 CT Town Clerks can't accept Erecordings ...

Good job. Very interesting.

Reply by SamIam_CA on 5/17/05 6:13pm
Msg #38460

Bobbi - thanx for your perspective! I learned a lot. n/m

Reply by Gerry_VT on 5/17/05 6:19pm
Msg #38464

Re: 169 CT Town Clerks can't accept Erecordings ...

Bobbi in CT wrote:

Issues: Carry your printer so you can print out borrower's copy at their home. Elderly
borrower (and me with not-so-great eyesight) may want NSA to print out a full set so that
they can read it on paper rather than PC screen (expensive laptop so that can have large
screen and ability for borrowers to sit and read through your laptop ... oops, sorry, I
touched some keys, what happened to your computer?), have to have ability to
handle many different types of software ... unless every lender and title company
agrees to use the same (HA!!! They can't even agree on using the same paper forms).

My response as a homeowner is that I'm not going to use a signing technology
that I don't completely understand. The title company sends the documents to
my computer several days in advance. I pore over it, send a copy to my attorney,
compare it to online versions of deeds and mortgages, etc. Then the notary shows
up. I digitally sign it on my computer with my certificate. Then I transmit it to
the notary and say aloud "I acknowledge the document I just sent you". The
notary then digitally signs it. If that isn't how it works, then I'm using a pen on paper.

VT has much the same situation with town clerks as CT. They won't be accepting
digital deeds any time soon.

Reply by PAW_Fl on 5/17/05 6:43pm
Msg #38469

Re: 169 CT Town Clerks can't accept Erecordings ...

>>> The NSA has laptop with ENJOA software, signature & thumbprint pad & pen, camera for photo. NSA keys in identification info into Journal, takes thumbprint. Then logs out of ENJOA into lender/title propriatary software and pulls each loan document on screen, when get to signature lines, borrower signs on pad w/ pen, when gets to notarization block, NSA completes and signs. When all signed, entire loan document package is Esent back to lender/title. <<<

Okay, and how does the borrower(s) get their copies? Are we suppose to print on site? Reg Z doesn't kick in until they have their disclosures in their hands, not on some hard drive. Even if electronic copies are okay, (Reg Z has already taken that part into account by stating only one copy of the notice is required), how does the average borrower (sans computer) cancel their loan? They must have hard copy. No matter how thin you slice the bread, someone has to have half the loaf and there will always be crumbs all over the place.

>>> Title then Esends mortgage deed for recording ... or in states that consider a hard copy of an electronic document as a recordable original, prints a hard copy and mails to recording clerk. <<<

Perfect setup for expanding MERS.

I would really like to get on the e-loan/mortgage bandwagon, but there just seems to be too many questions that remain unanswered to us in the industry to warrant any excitement. I wish there were a committee or at least someone "in the game" that I could get to and ask all these questions. I've inquired with Verisign and Entrust, but no one has ever responded to my requests that they are actively participating in this project. Have you any idea "whose in charge"?

Reply by MarleneM/USNA on 5/18/05 8:52am
Msg #38579

Re: 169 CT Town Clerks can't accept Erecordings ...

Like most everything else, PAW, no one's in charge. You know how you have to have PCL-compliant printers to print e-docs now for some companies? You will have to have vendor compliant software and/or hardware and/or access to serve the companies who are using it, and there will be multiple, competing vendors.

Reply by Stephanie_CA on 5/17/05 1:57pm
Msg #38367

Re: Looking for Notaries who use ENJOA...Sam..

ENJOA can be used to handle electronic notarizations.

Reply by PAW_Fl on 5/17/05 1:28pm
Msg #38354

What has Enjoa got to do with it? Please explain. Thank you.

Reply by SarahBeth_CA on 5/17/05 2:05pm
Msg #38375

Along with the issues PAW raised I would say that another thing in the way of this is the equipment costs. That would definately drive up the fees that we would have to charge in order to purchace such equipment. In this world of volume discounts given by ss's to lenders in which the notary is the one who really takes the cut in fee I don't think that this will fly.

Reply by SigningZ.com on 5/17/05 2:12pm
Msg #38379

One of the issues we are working on is supplying and training notaries.

There are several operationl issues to address, and none of that will happen in the message boards, trust that much. But we are currently working with knowledgable notaries as well as other entities who are knowledgable with the ENJOA system to make sure that it is a win/win situation for notaries, the ss and title.

To be absolutley clear about it, right now, we are simply updating the the dtatabsae to reflect notaries who are currently using ENJOA. All other issues obviously need resolution.

That will, indeed, fly.

Reply by SarahBeth_CA on 5/17/05 3:42pm
Msg #38433

I'm sure there are many notaries who are interested in getting into this if it is indeed lucrative. Is there a difference in fees paid to the notaries who currently use ENJOA than the fees offered for paper doc signings. If so what is the percentage? Would you mind giving a scenario situation as to what the benefits to the notary using ENJOA are? I understand that you are updating your database right now, I am just trying to research this and see if it's something that I would want to consider doing. Thank You for your quick responses. Oh and I signed up with your company a couple of weeks ago so please feel free to call me for paper assignments

Reply by CAtitlegal on 5/17/05 2:12pm
Msg #38378

Documents filed electronically by title company

Some California County Recorders offices will now accept documents filed electronically by title companies only. I'm guessing here - that this lender may be using those companies/counties approved to do electronic document filing? Seems reasonable considering the question "why would the lender care how we keep our journals?"

Reply by Notary In MI on 5/17/05 5:54pm
Msg #38456

You Can't Call Any MI Notaries......

Don't bother calling any Michigan Notaries then!
Here's the scoop from the Laws:

"Notaries should not attempt to notarize electronic signatures. There are no procedures for doing so. In addition, the use of an electronic or computer-made notary seal is NOT allowed by LAW"!

Reply by Gerry_VT on 5/17/05 6:25pm
Msg #38467

Re: You Can't Call Any MI Notaries......

Notary In MI wrote:
> Here's the scoop from the Laws:

> "Notaries should not attempt to notarize electronic signatures. There are no procedures for > doing so. In addition, the use of an electronic or computer-made notary seal is NOT allowed > by LAW"!

What is the source of this?

I wonder if Michigan has the authority to prevent digital notarizations, given that the federal E-Sign bill makes it legal? I certainly agree there are no procedures, but does that mean Michigan can prevent people from making up their own procedures?

Reply by PAW_Fl on 5/17/05 6:45pm
Msg #38471

Re: You Can't Call Any MI Notaries......

My thoughts exactly. Federal mandate of e-notarizations in the law of the land. Implementation, procedures and policies are up to the states. Kind of like the Patriots Act for lending institutions.

Reply by Paul on 5/17/05 6:47pm
Msg #38472

Re: You Can't Call Any MI Notaries......

I am always curious and never surprised, but always saddened when a sworn officer who cannot advise law by law....advises law. It happens so much in these rooms. Don't you think there is actual legal counsel for this company? There is!

All we are doing at this time is updating the database. If you have the ability to use ENJOA, let us know, if not, that's fine too. But why must notaries advise, and so poorly 90% of the time, when THEY SHOULDN'T?

Cutting and pasting the written law, is as bad as advising, and YOUR INTERPRETATION of the law is not allowed...BY LAW! Please let the actual lawyers do that. That's what law abiding companies do!

Thanks for your interest! Sorry for being sucha sourpuss, but Iyou shouldn't advise law when your not a lawyer.

See you in Vegas!

Reply by PAW_Fl on 5/17/05 6:57pm
Msg #38476

Re: You Can't Call Any MI Notaries......

Paul (assuming you're the Paul from SigningZ), I think you're reading more into the discussion than is there. We're not arguing with you or your efforts to go ahead with this. You have simply raised (again) a very stirring issue with us, that being the whole e-notarization and e-mortgage/loan process. It has started a very lively debate, that is not directed at you but at the industry as a whole. (At least that's the way I see it.) As far as I know, there has been no real officially sanctioned consortium established from all the entities involved in the entire process. If there is some sort of consortium, I personally would like to be a part of it, or at least have some responsible and knowledgeable representation from this side of the table to express our view, concepts, ideas, and thoughts.

I applaud you taking on a piece of the action, but again, it's only a piece. Newly developed pieces have a hard time fitting into an already complicated puzzle.

Reply by Paul on 5/17/05 7:02pm
Msg #38479

Re: You Can't Call Any MI Notaries......

It's me - you probabaly guessed by the rudeness...which I do apologize for. Part of it for me is when I use this room to spread some action around, and see it dissolve into a discussion about something that it is not... is frustrating, because I head the operational end of a company and have a job to do, and want to maintain focus.

The intellectual in me, LOVES it! And I love the arguing (the good kind) about the finer points. Ulitimately, we are always just hoping to find more ways to emply more notaries, I hope you see that is my bottom line.

I appreciate your patince with me, hope we are gettng you eom work! I think I will go home now and enjoy a martooni or two. Long day with much happening....

Reply by PAW_Fl on 5/17/05 7:07pm
Msg #38481

Re: You Can't Call Any MI Notaries......

I wish you would send me work instead of checks for work I haven't done! (I received a check for the wrong person. This is a common happening between me and another notary of the same name in WV. Only think is, I don't cash the checks that don't belong to me!)

And, btw, it wasn't your rudeness that gave you away. I don't read rudeness into posts. I read for content. It was the content that gave you up.

Reply by BrendaTX on 5/17/05 8:02pm
Msg #38492

Many of us would jump at the chance...

to get a leg up on our competition with a purchase of a 500.00 +/- gadget to make us more attractive (i.e. ENJOA)...however, until we know that ENJOA is going to be the best "game" in town, I am not really eager to invest in ENJOA.

ENJOA may be like the Betamax (I think that was it) which not chosen over VCR technology.

Or is my logic off here?

Reply by Art_MD on 5/18/05 10:00am
Msg #38603

Re: Many of us would jump at the chance...

Many people have been burned when getting into electronics at the early stages. BrendaTX mentioned Betamax. Quality wise, Betamax had it all over VHS. There were some shortcomings that were overcome in time but VHS had siezed the market. Somewhat similar to 8-track vs cassette, Apple and MSDOS. Others -HDTV format, Storage media for cameras, etc.

Until we have reasonable insurance that we will not end up with a useless piece of equipment, we are reluctent to shell out the $$$. We have been burned, in other ways, and are leary (NNA, Sirianni,SOX)

Art

Reply by Pablo Diablo on 5/18/05 11:42am
Msg #38642

Re: Many of us would jump at the chance...

I totally understand your point here, Art.

I didn't ask anyone otbuy anything, what I did ask is for people who had ENJOA to contact us.

I am only trying to bring people more work...

I just can't handle the misinformation that is prevalent here. Example: When I advertised that our new policy was to cut and mail checks within 48 hours, I got my butt kicked in here...why?

It's crazy! I was noary too, I got burned, but I don't hate the world for it...

You might not know this, but some in here do. I helped over 100 notaries recoup fees from DocumentService.com who I used to work for (talk about a crook - Mike Warner...takes the cake! I'm working with several notaries right now, building our case against him - he took all the money due to notaries and kept it. Bought FOUR BOATS!!!) And I helped a major title company get those notaries paid, and yet, I had nothing to do with it. I gained nothing from it, and in fact very few even said thanks...which tells me a lot about the caliber of some people who post quite a bit in here....

Nonetheless, I have never ripped anyone off, and don't intend to.

Thanks again Art, for your, "levelheadedness...."

Reply by Ernest_CT on 5/17/05 10:19pm
Msg #38507

SigningZ.Com and ENJOA

SigningZ.Com is one of the companies for which I enjoy working! Their people are honorable and their payments have never been short nor late. I will take every signing they offer and be grateful.

IF (and it is a big "if") ENJOA does become accepted as a standard (a true national standard throughout the industry, not just a pipedream promulgated by the NNA), and Connecticut allows us to use ENJOA, then I will gladly make the investment. Given the glacial speed with which our government agencies move, I feel I have no need to begin saving my pennies yet.

Reply by Bobbi in CT on 5/18/05 6:34am
Msg #38566

ENJOA and CT

Ernest,

As you know, CT does NOT require Notaries to keep Journals. In the past 20 years any legislation requiring a NP to keep a Journal never made it into the legislature or was KILLED with the SOTS help in committee.

If you want to, any Notary Public in CT can use ENJOA today.

Reply by Gerry_VT on 5/17/05 7:29pm
Msg #38485

Re: You Can't Call Any MI Notaries......

Paul is "always saddened when a sworn officer who cannot advise law by law....advises law." It has always been my impression that unauthorized practice of law involves a reccommendation that a certain person take a certain action in a definite situation. General discussions, with out reference to any particular person or situation. about what the law is or should be is just political discussion, which is protected by the first amendment.

Reply by Another MI notary on 5/17/05 9:55pm
Msg #38501

500 signings for 50 states

I have read every post on this board and on GMN on this article. Let's see if I have this right; we spend +/- $500 (plus a lap top and small enough printer to lug around to print borrower's copies). And all this for 500 signings (maybe) a month spread out over 50 states equals 10 signings per month, per state. How many of these do any one of us think we'll get? And how much more will we get to help offset this expense? If I get a regular e-doc fee ($100 or more and that is what you would need because you're still downloading and printing at least one set of docs) plus an additional fee of $25 - $40 for using enjoa how many signings will it take to just recoup your expenses, then divide that number by the number available for your area. Seems to me, it will take a very long time.

Reply by Bobbi in CT on 5/18/05 6:43am
Msg #38567

You forgot to factor in another annual cost ..

The NNA has an annual licensing fee for ENJOA that must be factored in.

Also, my guess is the lenders may also include an annual licensing fee for any software that the NSA has to use. The lender will probably pass that cost on to the NSA as well. In general for software support and sometimes upgrades, businesses pay an annual licensing fee based on the number of users. In the day job it's a cost of doing business and having employees. I can't see a lender paying for an independent contractor's costs, plus what if the same software can be used by multiple lenders? No one lender will want to pay the NSAs costs so that the other lenders get off with less expenses.

I hear the marketing pitch: Today it is "Take this first signing from us at less than your regular rate, $65 for Edocs, and you will make it up on volume from us later". Tomorrow it is "Buy the equipment, software and licensing fees now, take our Edocs signing at $65, and you will make it up in volume because you can use it for other lenders".

In today's environment, how many NSAs have seen their fees increased after the "reduced rate initial signing" or have gotten "volumes" of assignments that made up for the increased expenses of gas, wear & tear on vehicle and equipment, and "sorry, it cancelled lost business income".

P.T. Barnum lives in the loan signing industry! Anyone want to buy a wooden nutmeg?

Reply by Melody on 5/17/05 10:24pm
Msg #38508

Oregon won't accept Enjoa. Neither will many states.

The Oregon Secretary of State office, Corporate Division, also does not recommend the use of electronic journals. Here is a portion of their opinion.

"...the notary is collecting a potentially large database of signatures, biometric data and photographs that is subject to abuse. Identity theft, by the notary or someone with access to a notary's computer, would be a relatively simple affair. Victims would have an enormously difficult time repudiating their thumbprint, and might not have any idea how their identity was stolen.

Picture a notary that works for a bank or other large firm. All it would take would be one or two abuses of the stored information to generate handsome profits. There would be little recourse for the victim."


The NNA - the only provider of Enjoa equipment - is the only one touting Enjoa.

My guess: Signingz must be in cahoots with NNA.

Reply by SigningZ.com on 5/18/05 9:49am
Msg #38597

The melody has another sour note...the song remains the same

We are not "in cahoots" with anyone. nice guess, but as usual, your negative assumptions are WAY OFF.

Just to let y'all know what SigningZ.com DOES and who we ARE in cahoots with, please read on:

We are "in cahoots" with the Marines at Camp Pendelton and pay for notary classes for any returning veterans of the war who are interested.

We ARE in cahoots with aboout 12 major title companies including those with their own signatture services and provide them with 100 QCd servce in all 50 states.

We ARE in cahoots with about 10,000 notaries who get PAID WITHIN 48 HOURS of their appoitment.

We are fostering realtionshoips with SOS in several states in order to get the correct information to their notaries to allay any fears they may have, the same fears that uninformed notaries bring to the surface with their neagtaive comments about decent, honest companies.

NOW back to the subject at hand:

We are updating our database to reflect who uses ENJOA in anticipation of a rollout of a partnership with another company that we will be doing ALL of their clsoigns for. I expect this will ake apporx 2 months to finalize. THAT'S IT!!!

We are not asking people to buy anything, and all your silly, negative comments are fine. You can live in a cave if you like, but we are ALWAY looking for new ways to extend our fair practice in this industry. We are the fastest paying company that I know of that employs over 2,000 notaries a month, and we do so with a big smile. We are potentially purchasing the systems ourselves and providning them for the signings...that is ONE potentiality. PLease look up "potentiality" in the dictionary before you write another silly thing...or maybe you think we are in cahoots with Webster now!

Some day, instead of just posting your uneducated suspicions, I would welcome a phone call. Of course, by asking questions you risk losing your self-image as a know it all, so I doubt we will ever receive it!

Man, I love these rooms.... no good deed goes unpunished...

Reply by Notary In MI on 5/18/05 10:15am
Msg #38608

SigningZ -> Paul

Paul -- Sometimes it's very hard to get the real tone to a post. I've seen many people take offense to posts that really weren't mean spirited. Sometimes it's best not to have a knee jerk reaction -- I don't want you to take this in a nasty way but, just as an FYI.

What I posted yesterday was directly from the MI Laws. Michigan specifically states that "ignorance of the Laws are no excuse". My post was not meant to be a negative, just an FYI. Maybe the States Laws aren't quite up to some others standards but this is what they have for us.

Also, you have posted on a few other occassions with the same type of "Juicy Newspaper Headline".... but the content of the article didn't tell us very much. You should know by now that "Inquiring Minds" want the full scoop. It just stirred up the pot and, thoughts just started flying --- you should have expected that to happen.

I'm glad you are progressing with your Company, and getting more accounts.

Reply by Dorothy/MI on 5/18/05 10:33am
Msg #38615

NOTARY IN MI - please reply

What area are you in? Please reply to me @ dmatsel at earthlink.net. Thanks.

Reply by Juicy Paul on 5/18/05 11:33am
Msg #38640

Re: SigningZ -> Paul

I totally understadn what you are saying about the inquiring minds. But where is the inquiry in the statement, "...they are in cahoots with the NNA?" that's not anything but FALSE.

Everything else I can handle, but she only said that to damage me, or my company. I can't sit back while someone who knows NOTHING about the situtuation does that. I would be remiss.

I asked for people to email us if they used ENJOA. To update our database, in anticipation of something.

For her to extrapolate like that is ridiculous... but your point is definitely good, and I understand, and will take it into account as I continue to use this forum to bring more notaries more work.

Thanks for your message, I hope you have signed up with us and I hope we are getting you lots of signings.

Reply by BrendaTx on 5/18/05 10:51am
Msg #38624

Re: The melody has another sour note .... Paul

Hi Paul, It's Brenda...but I bet you already guessed it.

Good for you all and for doing good things with the Marines, and the fast payments, et al. I salute you and these endeavors and accomplishments.

But, I respectfully submit I do not like that the notaries who chat here and exchange ideas here have been subjectively termed "silly."

Perhaps you need to slide on the NSA's shoes for a moment to see what kind of conversation you have engaged.

The NSA's perspective is different than yours. However, you love your business, and we love ours. I adore mine and I will fight like a tomcat to stay self-employed.

Can we agree that we have at least that much common ground?

What if all of a sudden a very large organization for signing service owners began to extol the wonders of becoming a signing service...and, they said "come join us...we'll show you how to cash in..."

Then, with the money YOU, Paul, have been paying them in membership fees to support the organization they did mass marketing to create competition and train them...while making more money to recruit more members to create more competition for you.

Next, your business dwindled down to nothing because a million people decided to open up signing services and they took the jobs you were getting 125 - 150.00 for, and they got them by bidding 100.00...then 75.00, then 50.00 .

Pretty soon...really soon, you cannot pay a notary, you lose your clients, and the ones you had left do not pay you on time.

Your creditors get mad at you...your equipment breaks and you cannot replace it.

And, then if that were not enough, the organization that did this to you creates an online ordering system and then did mass marketing and consensus building with all title companies and lenders and got them on board.

Now, if you don't drop another 500.00-2000.00 to buy into this ordering system you are told you'll be left behind...maybe even freeze in the dark. YOU will be called a cave dweller.

You probably cannot see this from the NSAs perspective, but we have every right to stonewall against ENJOA...and, if enough of us do...either the idea will be lost...of if the idea prevails, the rest of us may re-invent ourselves into signing services and cash in on those who have purchased ENJOA...never underestimate the power of networking and the spirit of the entrepreneurs like myself and others who are still around on these boards.

It's a nightmare for those who have weathered the storm.

Please, Paul, before you take personal offense at our feelings on the NNA and ENJOA and anyone who promotes this route, if you peer through our viewpoints and see a new perspective you might develop an understanding that you are not endearing yourself to the people you need to put on the ground.

The new ones will be here and then 90% of them will peter out because they have not built a business, but were used by NNA to build bank accounts.

Are the comments here silly?? No. It's a product of our conditioning.

I am hopeful that you will reconsider your remarks. IMHO, we all need each other in this business...and until you recognize you just have not walked in our shoes yet...you are not real clear on the subject you have brought forth.

This is meant most respectfully and I hope you reconsider before you continue to say we are cave dwellers. One reason we all work for ourselves is so that we are not called names because our views differ from a "boss's" opinion.

Thank you.

Reply by Paul on 5/18/05 11:10am
Msg #38630

Re: The melody has another sour note .... Paul

You're so coll headed - I love you for that. HOWEVER

WE ARE NOT IN CAHOOTS WITH THE NNA. And ignoring that she said that is not going to help us reach common ground.

What might is: Looking at the record of this company, and reading what poepl posting, not reading INTO whatpeope post.

I was , until recently, a notary also (haven't the time, now), and I share the same fears and needs you do. That is why I started this company. We are the fatstest paying company that I know of.

Her remarks were only meant to damage my company and me. You know it and dotoo. So my reaction is to defend my company. Her remarks are much worse than silly, they are damaging, unclled for, and false. How's that?

How many times have I come to you seeking advice? lots! (thanks, as always) and we always have a nice comversation, and what is the theme of most of my questions...how to get more people work.

I didn't ask anyone to buy anything

I didn't tell people to join the NNA

I didn't tell people that Melody is in cahoots with Al Qaeda (although I suspect she is)

I asked for poepl who use EJOA to contace us regarding future work, and look what she said? I would say that "silly" is too nice a word....and also inaccurate.

I WAS A NOTARY, FOR YEARS, TOO. So the shoe fits....

I appreciate you a lot, Brenda, and will continue to seek your wise and good-humored counsel. However I must reserve the right to defned myself against these "nuttering nabobs of nihilism!"

Thought I'd inject some humor into it...thanks Brenda, I'll hush.

Reply by PAUL on 5/18/05 11:12am
Msg #38631

Re: The melody has another sour note .... Paul

By the way, I correct all the spelling in this thing before Ihit post and it's a massacre. I type too quickly and have the emotional maturity of an eight-year-old, the typing skills too.

Hope you can read past the rant.... Thanks again Brenda.

Reply by BrendaTx on 5/18/05 2:46pm
Msg #38747

Sure, Paul....no problem. n/m

Reply by CaliNotary on 5/18/05 1:07pm
Msg #38665

Re: The melody has another sour note .... Paul

My god Paul, you are really a drama queen. Nobody is trying to damage your business, we're just having a discussion on a discussion board.

Reply by Queen Paul on 5/18/05 1:30pm
Msg #38680

Re: The melody has another sour note .... Paul

You are banished!

I wondered when you were gonna rear that ugly tongue.

Reply by CaliNotary on 5/18/05 1:51pm
Msg #38706

Re: The melody has another sour note .... Paul

Apparently not as quickly as you reared yours.

Reply by paul on 5/18/05 4:42pm
Msg #38782

Re: The melody has another sour note .... Paul

True.

You got me there!

Score another...and have a nice day.

Reply by BrendaTX on 5/18/05 5:42pm
Msg #38809

As I told Paul off the board...

You have not offended me. I am from Texas and like the song says, “I was drunk the day my momma got out of prison” so I am not likely to get all "hett" up over something on a board ...well, unless someone finds out about why Momma was in prison and posts it here...or starts talking all that mess back in the late 70's in Austin with those brothers I almost married that time and they never found...other than that, fahget abouddit.

Reply by Bobbi in CT on 5/18/05 1:50pm
Msg #38704

Notaries who already OWN ENJOA

My apologies to Paul for my post upsetting him. My post was not a slam at SigningZ.com. I have no complaints against SigningZ.com.

It was an in general personal opinion thread to warn anyone in CT that Erecordings and Esignings may not come to CT as fast as some may think. My intent was a warning that If you are a new NSA in CT, don't spend a lot of up-front money on equipment that you may not need.

Paul stated that he is looking for NSAs who Already Own Enjoa to update his database. Any CT NSA who already owns ENJOA should contact Signingz.com. Paul told me he plans to have work for you .... and if you already purchased the equipment, this would be another way to recoup your out-of-pocket expenses.