Posted by Texas on 5/2/05 11:55am
Msg #35300
Non borrower spouse
When would a non-borrower(spouse) NOT sign the DOT, TIL, etc. on rental/vacation property? Is it because it's rental property? Husband stated he had the property before marriage. Would that make a difference? The property is located in Texas. Couldn't get in touch with title co or SS that night. SS had on their instructions "people to be present is John Doe (Jane Doe)" I was not instructed to get the wife to sign any documents, except for her name in the instructions in the ( ). She wasn't pre typed on any documents. I don't understand why she wouldn't sign the DOT or TIL. Maybe someone can help me with this one. I didn't have her sign anything. If John Doe failed to pay the loan back, could they legally go after the wife in your opinion (not a legal question, just your opinion)?
| Reply by SamIam_CA on 5/2/05 12:02pm
Msg #35307
I'm thinking non-borrowing spouse who lives in state that does not have any spousal rights such as no dower, homestead etc. would not be required to sign anything. Unfortunatley - TX is a community property state. I think she should have signed at least the TIL.
| Reply by Art_MD on 5/2/05 12:16pm
Msg #35310
A Breda question !!
The following is personal opinion only. I am not a lawyer and am not giving advice.
Community property law are different state by state.
Property acquired before marriage, and kept seperate during a marriage, remains the property of the owner and is not community property.
Property acquired during marriage, by either party is community property unless that which is acquired is the result of seperate property.
i.e. Guy has a $100,000 CD. Keeps in his name only. It, and any interest it builds up, is not community property.
If he takes that interest and puts it into a joint checking account, interest put into the account is community property.
So, if he has kept the property seperate, the wife has no interest in the property.
As I said, this is general, not state specific and not legal advice.
Art
| Reply by ERNA_CA on 5/2/05 12:25pm
Msg #35311
Just my opinion.
There are many instances where the property is in one name only even thought the person is married. I have done many refis here that its in the husbands or the wifes name only. sometimes it has to do with bad credit and they maby plan to put the other parties name on the deed after it funds. Or like in this instance he bought the house before marriage therefore it is in his name only and he wants to keep it that way, for what ever reason. Dose it matter in divorce proceeding's that he bought the property before marriage, yes it might. If he doesn't pay his mortgage or if he dies can they go after the wife for payment, I should think so just as they can go after your kids if you die leaving dept. Just my opinion based on what I hear.
| Reply by Bob-Chicago on 5/2/05 12:31pm
Msg #35313
"go after" non-borowing spouse
Not legal advice , as I understand it, lender can only "go after" (collect money damages) only from those who sign the "obligation" documents (ie note or HELOC agreement)
non-borrowing spouse signs mtg/dot only to make whatever interst that they have in the property subject to the mortgage. If default then their interest in property is also subject to being lost in foreclosure.
TIL and RTC signed by non-borrowing spouse only regd to acknowledge receipt of those docs in order to comply with federal law.
DO NOT have non-borrowing spouse sign note or heloc agrrement unless name is typted or per instruction.
If you CAN NOT reach anyone, when in doubt , usually too many signatures on a Mtg/dot, TIL and RTC will not kill a deal. Not enough signatures will require a re-sign
| Reply by Ted_MI on 5/2/05 3:47pm
Msg #35359
Re: Bob - constructive comment
Bob,
You should keep in mind that what we are dealing with here, whether we are talking about HELOC's or about refinances, are secured loans: loans that have been secured by a principal residence, second home, investment property, whatever.
So in the event of non-payment, the remedies of the lender are to institute foreclosure proceedings. At least that is the easiest approach. I would think that if the proceeds of a foreclosure sale were not sufficient to satisfy the indebtedness (for one reason or another), then the lender might consider the route of instituting a suit to collect money damages.
So it is not so much the lender going after a signatory to the mortgage or a non-signatory; they are looking to the property to make them whole.
Agree completely with your second paragraph.
| Reply by Bob-Chicago on 5/2/05 5:22pm
Msg #35374
Re: Ted - constructive comment
Point I was trying to make is that even if proceeds of sale are not sufficient to satisfy the indebtedness. lender can ONLY attempt to collect deficiency from those who signed note or other "obligation docs"
My answer was to the last sentence of Texas' post
| Reply by Sylvia_FL on 5/2/05 12:35pm
Msg #35315
Florida is a homestead state, and the non-borrowing spouse signs the "legals", but I had one the other day, it was investment property and in the husband's name only, and only the husband had to sign anything. I questioned it with the title company, and they verified that only the husband had to sign.
| Reply by PAW_Fl on 5/2/05 12:48pm
Msg #35320
That's because investment property usually does not fall under the Homestead Act. And, as I have found out, there are times when 2nd home doesn't either. So, if the property is not "covered" by the Homestead protection, the non-obligated spouse does not need to sign anything (for Florida) as we are not a community property, or dower state.
| Reply by BrendaTX on 5/2/05 12:44pm
Msg #35318
NOT a legal opinion...just from OBSERVATION...chewing the fat...sharing INSIGHT only... which may or may not be true...this may not always apply, never apply, so on, and so forth:
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When a person's homestead is encumbered, USUALLY the non-borrowing person signs the DOT, TIL, RTC, and title docs which apply. If you run across a time where this is not required, call and double check it to be on the safe side.
Stating the obvious, but investment property is not a homestead--there is a difference between creating a lien on a person's home and property other than a home. This is seems to be what you are referring to, so same rules don't apply as with homestead property.
Sometimes there is a pre-nup which sets separate property aside...and so other things can kick in here and the title company knows what to do.
Sometimes the non-bwr with/without a pre-nup signs a WD to the bwring spouse for a refi on property just to warrant they did no damage to the title...enough said.
**If John Doe failed to pay the loan back, could they legally go after the wife in your opinion (not a legal question, just your opinion)?** Not sure, but I do not think they would want to, but would rather foreclose on the property in this case.
| Reply by BrendaTX on 5/2/05 1:09pm
Msg #35322
Here's one for you: Homestead
Mother owns a house Son lives in as his home. Mother is the one signing the note and she lives elsewhere.
Title co. calls and says
(1) Add son to DOT, TIL, RTC, etc, BUT, if son is married: the DOT, TIL, RTC etc. must be signed by
Mother (borrowing party)
Son (non-borrowing party)
Wife (non-borrowing party)
(2) Be sure and get Homestead and Marital Affidavits on all involved (make copies if needed before signing).
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Son was not married. If he were, neither he nor wife were "owners" of the property...Mom "owned" it and was the obligated one....but the property was son's HOME.
| Reply by BrendaTX on 5/2/05 1:35pm
Msg #35327
Re: Here's one for you: Dad, Mom, Daughter...
Dad is obligated.
Mother (not vested) is not obligated.
Daughter 19 yo - (vested) is not obligated.
DOT: Dad signs, Daughter signs.
RTC: Dad, Daughter, Mother
TIL: Dad, Daughter, Mother
I don't know why...that's what the title company said to do.
Yes, they all lived together...yes, Mr. and Mrs. were married. However, the father was an immigrant...mother was an immigrant...Daughter was US Citizen...and they were getting about $250,000 cash out.
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One final note...SOMETIMES: If a spouse ever lives in a homestead with a spouse...even for one day, and
If the homestead is the separate property of one of the spouses,
If no pre-nup exists (or maybe even if it does) and
If the house is sold or encumbered after the non-owning spouse has lived there, EVEN if the non-owner dies or divorces the other years prior to such time,
The non-owner (or non-owner's heirs) must sign over any interests they *never* had via quitclaim or WD...OR sometimes it's not required.
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That's why I say "SOMETIMES" or "USUALLY" about everything.
| Reply by Stephen_VA on 5/2/05 1:38pm
Msg #35329
Re: Here's one for you: Dad, Mom, Daughter...
Ahhh... the law. There is some way to make *anything* *possible*.
| Reply by Kari/CA on 5/2/05 2:49pm
Msg #35351
I had a house prior to marriage which I added my daughter to title.
Both her husband and my daughter's husband have signed quit claims relinishing any rights to the property.
My daughter took out a loan, neither of our husband's had to sign anything.
Had we not had them sign the quit claims they would of had to sign RTC,TIL, etc.
| Reply by Ted_MI on 5/2/05 3:35pm
Msg #35358
Re: you mean "my husband and my daughter's husband"? n/m
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