Posted by Ted_MI on 5/4/05 9:13am
Msg #35723

Re: Jumping to conclusions....... a cautionary tale

hi all,

I suppose by telling this story I am going to expose myself to all sorts of ridicule. Oh well.... hopefully I have a thick enough skin.

Anyway, four or five days ago, I get a request to do a HELOC signing. The names of two guys are listed on the request. I am instructed to call one of them, "John". Ok, so I call John, and in the course of confirming the appointment he makes reference to the other guy as "his partner". The appointment was scheduled for last night.

Then a while later I receive the documents overnighted. On the first page of the mortgage, each one of these guys is listed as an unmarried individual. Ok, so now I am convinced that it is a gay couple. By the way, I should acknowledge that the line of credit did not deal with a principal residence.

So I go to the signing last night. I pull into the driveway and the garage door is open and there are all these kids bikes in the garage. I think to myself "Hmmmm, this isn't part of my preconceived scenario". And then I go inside and there is this little girl running around; that doesn't fit either.

So anyway, the three of us proceed with the signing, and just towards the end of the signing, there is a commotion and some people arrive. And lo and behold, this woman comes in, and one of the guys introduces her to me as his wife. OK, so now my preconceived notion is totally shot !!

Now what I haven't figured out is why they each was listed on the mortgage as an unmarried individual. Michigan is indeed a spousal state but not a community property state. Either the lender screwed up or conceivably they were trying to avoid problems in recording the mortgage. Don't know yet.

Sorry this is so long ............

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 5/4/05 9:34am
Msg #35730

Re: Jumping to conclusions....... a cautionary tale

He may have introduced her to you as his wife, but she could be his live in girlfriend. I have had couples introduce themselves as husband and wife, when they are just living together.

I have also had signings with gay couples, that have been previously married and have children from that marriage.


I did have one signing about a month ago, the names on the docs were Edward and Johnnie.
Jumping to conclusions, (not good exercise <g.) I misinterpreted.
Johnnie was his wife, she was definitely female, and Johnnie was her legal name.

Reply by Julie-MI on 5/4/05 9:47am
Msg #35734

Re: Jumping to conclusions....... a cautionary tale

Sylvia may be correct or the guy got married after he brought the property and never added wife's name to title. Title company would list them as single according to the title search. I would have called as this lien could be unperfected even if it is not a primary residence.

And about the gay thing, I have really messed situations in the past.

I had one of those closings where the borrowers had a bi-gender name, i.e. Terry.

When Terry answered the door, I said nice to meet you Mr. Smith. And sat down. Then the woman came out and I asked if he was married because his wife would have to sign. Then I realized Terry had hands that were smaller than mine and Terry was a woman and the woman that came in the room was her partner. I could feel my face get as red as an overripe tomato. This was in Oct. when the gay marriage thing was in full force. My husband told me I probably paid her the best compliment by mistaking her for a him.

Then I had a closing yesterday, that the borrower had a huge growth from her earlobe--these things happen and you just have to keep your wits about you.

Reply by Julie-MI on 5/4/05 1:51pm
Msg #35774

Re: Jumping to conclusions....... a cautionary tale

Julie too cute, nice departure to large growth on earlobe, distracting at best I bet.

Reply by HisHughness on 5/5/05 12:31am
Msg #35922

Re: Jumping to conclusions....... a cautionary tale

Julie-MI recounts:

***Then I had a closing yesterday, that the borrower had a huge growth from her earlobe--these things happen and you just have to keep your wits about you.***

I have had a couple of closings where the borrower was nothing more than a huge growth hanging from his earlobe.

Reply by sue on 5/4/05 10:07am
Msg #35739

Re: Jumping to conclusions....... a cautionary tale

'his partner'.

Ted, I'm purchasing a piece of investment property with 'a partner' that I've got no personal tie to other than we both are hoping to make a decent quick profit. But, during the phone call I would have assumed what you did probably.

Reply by jojo_MN on 5/4/05 11:25am
Msg #35757

Re: Jumping to conclusions....... a cautionary tale

I went to a closing one night. Male and female both had same last name. Got to marriage affidavit. They were brother and sister, not a married couple. Whoever wrote up the docs for the lender had them listed as husband and wife on the Mortgage.

Another time, I went to a closing and asked if the couple was married. They said no. The next day I got a call from the SS asking why I didn't have the borrowers husband written in on the mortgage page and sign all other required pages. It turns out the female was married, but living with and taking out a mortgage with the single man. I had to drive 80 miles each way to correct the document at my expense. I couldn't prove that the SS forgot to tell me that her husband was supposed to be present and I needed to add his name to the docs.

I now always ask.

Reply by Lee/AR on 5/4/05 2:49pm
Msg #35785

Re: Jumping to conclusions....... a cautionary tale

Instructions say to 'Get Cert. Death Certificate' for Susan. I tell Borrower in confirmation call. He says he doesn't have it & they know this. I call them to be sure they still want me to go; they say yes. Docs arrive & have Susan's name on them. (Tell self: don't think--just go!) Arrive, man only 1 there, signs docs...am about ready to leave when a lady strolls thru the room and says "We have to go soon." He says "OK, Susan." WHOA!!! Turns out the DC was for his mother, Susan.... and this is his wife, Susan...and, yep, she really needed to sign these docs--and did, very fast. First time I ever signed a 'dead' person...and I hope it's the last time I jump to conclusions!

Reply by Monica - FL on 5/4/05 6:25pm
Msg #35842

Re: Jumping to conclusions....... a cautionary tale

Why would they want a DC for the mother when it wasn't for her at all? Sounds like the title company wasn't too sure of what was going on here.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 5/4/05 6:55pm
Msg #35852

Re: Jumping to conclusions....... a cautionary tale

Monica
it is possible that the mother was on the title to the house. May have been her house to start with, and passed on to the children.

Reply by Lee/AR on 5/4/05 8:37pm
Msg #35892

Re: Jumping to conclusions....... a cautionary tale

Both mother and wife have same first name, middle initial (not name) and, of course, last name. Sylvia may be right. I didn't get into it... (except to make call to tell them B did not have the DC...and was told that was OK; continue). Was too busy recovering from shock/embarrassment/slapping myself for 'assuming' things... we all know what that does!

Reply by CarolynCO on 5/4/05 9:08pm
Msg #35900

Re: Jumping to conclusions....... a cautionary tale

As for the children, as Sylvia said, they could be from previous marriages or even adopted. Many gay couples have children from previous relationships. I don't have a lot, but I do have *some* openly gay couples that have become my friends. Just today, a group of us (5 women) had lunch with Andrew, who is quite a hoot! It is very obvious he is gay -- the way he talks, dresses and the way he carries himself. He was even giving one of the women fashion pointers and way to wear her hair. Our waiter was quite uncomfortable with our table. Andrew, his partner and about 3 of the women and their spouses are going out together on Friday evening. Andrew asked one of the women if her husband was okay with it. She said that he was, and Andrew said he just wanted to make sure, because even though him and his partner show affection toward each other in public, they both flirt with both sexes.

For some reason, dealing with attorneys, I also find myself dealing with all types of people and relationships. I try to just go with the flow and not judge. I'm sure if my Dad was still alive, he would ask me where he went wrong in raising me.